China vs. Japan: What's An Apology, Anyway?

April 12, 2005

So China's pissed off. People are protesting in Beijing and Guangzhou. They're angry that their great-grandma was raped and killed and their uncle was flayed, and Japan never said sorry. They seemed to get off scot-free.

So the protestors demanding an apology. That's what seems to be the big issue --Japan's unrepentent attitude. My uncle forwarded me the message below that calls for a boycott of Japanese goods and links to an online petition.

As a Chinese American girl who lived 3+ years in Japan, I can tell you, a lot what the protesters say is true. Japanese leaders all visit Yasukuni Jinja, the shrine where many of the generals who are considered war criminals by China are interred. They downplay their culpability in the war and focus a lot of attention on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, sites of their own horrific suffering.

So why does this call for boycott sound quaint to me? Maybe because Japanese products are so ingrained in daily life I don't know how I could just stop using them. My car, my facial scrub, my electronics, and whoops, my boyfriend, all trace their origins back to those little islands. It's where my mom grew up and where my grandma still lives --not to mention a bunch of dear friends who are just as horrified as I am at the atrocities of the war.

And I can't help thinking, what good will an apology do, anyway? I remember the first time I genuinely felt "saying sorry isn't good enough." Will an apology make China shut up and go away? Should it? Saying sorry, even paying reparations, doesn't undo mass graves.

Moreover, though the US has apologized to Japanese Americans for internment and even paid them for their trouble, it's hard to say that it reflects a repentant attitude. We're seeing the same kind of discrimination played out every day at Guantanamo, in DMVs apparently, in airports, in immigration offices, basically at every level of government. So what does an apology mean, really?

Of course I see the point of protesting. I'm glad China is standing up and not letting the world forget what happened. I hope it does veto Japan's bid for the Security Council, even though it and everyone else on the council are guilty of plenty themselves --I think i just like dramatic gestures. Japan, like the US, has some right-wing nut jobs that still have a lot of power (--though less than our nut jobs. Ours become president. Japan remains a country that has a non-aggression article in its constitution).

But I think we have an ackward balancing act --we ABCs, sanseis, adoptees-- when it comes to troubles in the homeland. We band together here for political expediency and kinship, but it's an disingenuous to say that overseas rifts shouldn't affect us. I don't want to be so "modern" that I discard the suffering of my father's mother.

So I'm at a bit of a loss. Do I trade in my cute little Honda for a sand colored Chevy Prizm? Should I stop buying music produced by Sony? Should I forward this letter to everyone i know? Do i get credit for including it in this blog?

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If you're keeping up with International Relations, China/India are to emerge as great powers in the next 20-50 years, shifting the balance of power. So Western economists are concerned. Having also studied Chinese history, the Chinese government is corrupt, however the only reason why Japan is so well-developed is because they welcomed Westerners to influence their country. On the other hand, China fought it off while at the same time dealing with civil disputes due to its geographic location (Mongols, Manchus, Tanguts, Persians, Jurchens..the list goes on). Japan on the other hand was an island.It's annoying how all of your comments are so disrespectful. I think she made some good points, and she didn't immaturely scoff off either side. She was just voicing her oinion. If you guys have a differing opinion, at least be mature about it unless you're a 15 year old who knows nothinig about world politics and Chinese/Japanese foreign relations. You let all your nationalistic mentalaties obscure the truth. I'm Chinese and my boyfriend is Japanese, and we don't discuss/argue about our countries' pasts. Frankly, why sit there for countless hours arguing about what should/shouldn't be done? If it REALLY matters to you that much then you should go out there and do something about it.As my boyfriend would joke: "Japanese people came from Chinese people, so essentially, it's just Chinese people killing themselves!"
Takashi honestly China did influence Asia.Japan sent scholars to China until the 1300s to study Chinese culture and take whatever they could.SO why are you laughing?China's economy is rising 10 percent every year.China is expected to surpass Japan in every aspect in just 10 years, just 10 years.Amazing.....China is not a body economy.Most High-Tech goods are made in China now even from Sony.China is also the 2nd largest car market in the world.Laugh while you can because maybe in the future you will se a red flag majestically blowing in the wind on Mount.Fuji.I am part Japanese and Chinese and people must realize China is rising.Later on China will take on Japan's head economy with their own arsenal of high tech goods.Oh wait South Korea is running the show now.Samsung is dominating the Asian market.So never mind. China will go head to head against the worthy Korean people.Until Japan realizes they have only surpassed China during the 20th century,all the Japanese will be naive and arrogant.Sayonara JapanKonnichiwa RISING CHINAFROM THE WISE ONE
haha rape
Haha Nanking... lol!!!!!
It is amazing how ignorant some people are. Think about this in the perspective of a Chinese person. China had been a country of peace. It had never been an aggressor of any war throughout its history. China has never invaded Japan or amtempted so. Then all of a sudden, Japan comes into your country attacks kill, rape and torture an entire city of chinese people. These people were civilians not soldiers. The soldiers all died bravely under-armed trying to defend protect their people. Can this attack on an innocent group of people be justified in anyway? Just because one psycho wants to take over the world, millions had to suffer. After all that Japan tries to make everyone forget that it had ever happened by denying it. Something like this should never be forgotten. The Chinese can forgive but they will not forget. With no apology there will be no forgiveness. Denying and lying will only provoke anger. An apology will do nothing. It won't bring back the lives of the innocent but it can instill forgiveness.What I think needs to happen is revenge. The US took Nagasaki and Horoshima for Pearl Harbor (That is 2,000 lives for 150,000). What Japan did in China and other Asian countries, they will have to take the lives of the entire country of Japan.About me: I born and raised in America. I remembered when I was younger my grandma would tell me how she ran and hid in fear of the Japanese invasion. She told me about some the cruel things that happened. I never thought much about it until now. After I saw the documentary the rape of Nanking. It made me sick to my stomach. I was angry at what Japan did and for the reason they did it. It made me angrier that they denied it ever happened. I think should watch this documentary. I regret purchasing the Lexus and this laptop I am typing on. They are products of high quality and I enjoy them very much. If China has a chance, I hope they invade Japan and rape their women and loot their high quality electronics and cars and kill all the Japanese people. Just for revenge but I doubt the Chinese will ever do such things because they are better than that and have more sense than that. That is why Chinese are better than the Japanese and that is why Japanese envies China. They envied China so much that they had to attack them in an attempt to steal their culture. This attack will never be forgotten.RIP Iris Chang.
It's true that the Japanese people followed orders when the nation was being led to war. But it doesn't excuse them for telling revisionist falsehoods to the world and to the youth of Japan. Japan's economy is currently in a 10-year slump that has created a need for upbeat and nationalistic feelings. Abe does a good job of rousing the Japanese by marginalizing and whitewashing their WWII war crimes. Hideki Tojo's Granddaugher Yuko has made a bid for Japan's diet and plans on eliminating the current constitution. She also wants to reinstate Japan's armed forces. At the same time, she claims that her nation was a fighting a war in self-defense in WWII. Even Abe and other nationalistic Japanese politicians shirk from her ultranationlist ideas and remarks. That's pretty amazing, right? Even a 70-year old Japanese war veteran has said that she wouldn't make a good politician because of her views. You guys can check the Associated Press for more details and the actual article.
You know everybody, the problem is: China has not retaliate and attack Japan. Until that day happens, the Japanese would learn their lesson the HARD WAY. Just as the US dropped the 2 bombs on Japan, and how is Japan reacting to US for doing that? With respect.
Sooooo ya wow this blog has been around over a year? I read some of the top and bottom posts and skipped the middle because it was just too long. But I am pretty sure they are all very much the same thing over and over and repeated indefinitely.So, here are some of my thoughts. And I do want people to know my background so the readers can understand from my point of view. I am Chinese (Shanghainese) born in Taiwan, a place where has many influence by the Japanese government. It is a 98% Chinese, 1% native Taiwanese and 1% other island dominated island that is still trying to fight over its independence from China. There are many reasons for that and I will not go into.Back to the subject at hand, the Japanese invasion of China back in 1940 was like any other invasions of any country in the world, this was because of the time China was not aware of its obsolete in the world in count of military power and economy wealth. Simply China did not have the military force to defend itself from all the Western country taken over its lands. Japanese at the time made the correct decision to invade China with full force and hopefully China will not have the power to counter-attack. At this point, all in love and war is fair. Except the fact of the cruelty on innocent civilians, I don’t know if everyone knows or agrees with the fact that even during a war/invasion there are rules of what the invading country can do or can not do. For example, the war in Iraq, prisoners are being sexually abused and photographs are taken as proves. This is not a moral act which is unlawful in a war. Court actions are taken by the US court after photos are exposed to the public. However in the case of Japanese solider raping Chinese women, no real justice was done. I believe this is why Chinese will never forget what happened and will not forgive the Japanese. I’m not sure if there are photographs taken or films running while the Japanese commited the crime, and probably did not (I wonder why…) But if this wasn’t a real event in history, do you honestly think people in general are stupid and bored enough to make up random event of war just to disgrace the Japanese? I for one would not. And not only did the Chinese remember deeply about it, the Koreans will not forget either. Sometimes I think the Koreans hate the Japanese more… But this is all in the past… We can not blame any of the Japanese now for what has been done. Because they have done nothing wrong. However, the Japanese government did erase all details of the war that can disgrace their country. The people of Japan are not liars, but their government has lied to them, through the text books and their teaching. So their new generation will not be ashamed, because they have not learned the truth.Do I think we should ban all Japanese products? No, what is the point of that… Do I think Japanese are at fault? Yes and No. Only the ones that committed the crime are wrong. And right now they’re about 70, 80 or even 90 years old, why bother imprisoning them? Just let them live with their guilt, I think that’s probably enough for their old age.When I said the Japanese text books are bias, I should add that China is bias also. For example China always says in the textbook that Americans stole their victory from them by nuking Japan. Maybe they did, but United States was China’s ally at the time so uhh why are people hating? And that “Communist” won the war against Japan… During the war it was a combining force of Nationalist + Communists that defended China, yet Communist had to backstab the Nationalists in order to take over China. That’s how the world is. China and Japan is just as bias as any other country in the world can be. So maybe stop pointing fingers? A lot of the Communist China text books are bias. I don’t think any one with some real education would believe that crap, as goes for the Japanese text book. But for the ones that do believe in such bias text books, I suggest them to read books outside of their local library, if necessary travel to some other country during your vacation and do some research there. So, we can’t simply just blame the Japanese for what they did wrong because not all of them are at fault, and by accusing the innocent we are not being just and fair. Everyone has their own opinion on subjects complicated and old like this one. And there are people who can’t accept anything other than what he/she believes; maybe it’s the pride that’s blinding them or just pure ignorance. I think this blog can be put to good use if people can finally stop arguing and actually listen to what others have to say. We should at least try to understand why some Chinese people are so furious about this subject, and understand what it means to them. And it’s okay to disagree with my point of view or anybody else’s but at least do the right thing and listen to what they have to say, instead of starting debate that no one will win.-Matt
jeniffer, I have some questions for you. 1) Chinese described 'The Rape of Nanking' still remains as a dubious happening which has many contradictions. Fake photos and wrong numbers of the deads are described. Being pointed out the contradictions in the book, the author of 'The Rape of Nanking', who was also a member of communist party in China, ignored the claims, and suicided miserably... Was that all true?2) On Sunday, the protesters have attacked Japanese Embassy, damaged Japanese shops' property and robbed them. Police simply let them do, stood like they are merely one of spectators under the clear sky. For protesters, Government (or city) had a preparation of buses to give them a ride back to their home. You know, their riot can stop them when it comes to domestic issue. Can you smell illegal elements that Chinese could commit this time?3) A textbook, which had been previously revised and targeted by Chinese and Korean protesters,published in 2001 and was used in a few (0.03%) schools in Japan. In 2005, it would be the same.Because Japanese schools have at least rights to select their textbook. So those Chinese/Korean protesters has been targeting a few line in a textbook which might be selected by a few schools in Japan.I heard that after Tiananmen incident (this would be a spell-miss), Government was putting effort to direct people's anger inside China toward another country rather than to itself. Education has been redesigned in order to justify their aggressive feeling toward another country. I think US got it several times. And Japan seems to be getting often recently. Hey, your country's textbooks tought you all the truth?4) It's about 60 years ago. Did the protesters have even single victim among them?5) Japanese apologized several times in the past about invading China. Japanese is paying enomous amount of money every year (still now!) to Chinese government which Chinese government doesn't tell to its people. Maybe she is paying the money because she want. Maybe it's a form of apology. What do you think?6) How did Chinese treat Tibetans in the past? and now. Can you tell about it? Do you really think these people opening the restraint in Beising somehow related to the past? Are you saying "it's good thing" looking at the fact that protesters was saying "Come out Japanese Pigs!!!". You say yourself as a person who learned something in US. You have some research skill and did examine what would be true on this matter in US, right? What did you learn? I'm asking these question to you since you're simply insulting people who have nothing to do with the past. If you can't answer my questions, many people in US and Europe and other Asian nations will continue murmuring "shame on you, shame on China".
Germans should not be allowed to whitewash Hitler, neither should Japan be allowed to alter its legacy in its textbooks. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it and propaganda is the surest way to destroy democracy.
German haven't apologized about Nazi at all.Japan have apologized at least about its invasion to China.Japan, German have been democratic country since before World War I. Rom. I know what you wanna say but you are just showing your ignorance. Supporting jeniffer's opinion, you're not answaring harry's question at all.Saying "propaganda", "doom" isn't wise to convince anyone who is not stupid...
1. The author of Rape of Nanking was a Chinese-American, Iris Chang. I am sure she had no affiliation with the Chinese communist party. Unfortunately Miss Chang passed away last year. Tokyo Tribunal held after the war estimated at least 150000 Chinese murdered and executed in Nanking. It's not 300000. But 150000 is still a lot.2. If you listened to NPR, you would know that this resentment against Japan among Chinese people is grass-rooted. The Chinese government did not start the on-line petition. The whole thing simply ballooned on its own due to the wide access to the internet. The government simply cannot do anything now to stop it. If the government says No Protest, the anger will turn on them too. The Chinese government is walking a very fine line. The police officers did stand outside the embassy so the protesters did not get too close. Stones and rocks were thrown however, over these police officers’ heads.3 The Chinese textbooks presumably teach the Chinese patriotic feelings. I am sure many Chinese learn that Americans and Japanese were imperialists and aggressors in the past. However, they are also taught Hiroshima and atomic bombs and the sufferings of Japanese people during the war. They are aware of China’s problems, at least based on my personal interactions with Chinese students, most of them criticize the Chinese communist government more than any other government. However, that does not stop them from criticizing Japan for not coming up with a sincere apology and not showing serious remorse toward its WWII atrocities.4. You don’t need to be a victim to protest. I am sure a lot of people protesting against the Iraq War today are not Iraq War victims. You fight for your beliefs. That’s it.5. Japan is a beautiful country and Japanese people are very kind. I have been to Japan. The politeness of its people impresses me to no end. However, that does not mean Japan should not apologize to its war past. Also, “regret” does not equal to “apologize.” In our world, maybe the two are the same. But in China, I suppose the two words are totally different. Japan’s officials, to my knowledge, have used “regret” on more occasions. There has never been a declaration of apology from the previous or the current emperor, or a written apology or law condemning the atrocities. In fact, Japan was helped by the US in the matter. Soon after WWII, the cold war began. US needed Japan to counter the communist bloc, therefore, US helped Japan either cover up the past or simply ignore most of the truth.6. China’s communist government has done many terrible things. It’s great that the world pays attention to the plight of Chinese people. However, it’s also necessary for the world to remember the sufferings of Chinese people endured under Japanese brutality 60 years ago. China’s wrongdoings should not be used as an excuse to exonerate Japan. Similarly, anti-Japan nationalism should not be used as an excuse for the Chinese people to ignore their own government’s problems.
The Germans did apologize and pay reparations for WWII (further discussion of which could open a new kettle of fish here in the US as reparations are on some peoples' tongues - what are your opinions on that idea??). Quite possibly the key impetus for Japan to do some internal reflection on WWII and other exploits lies in the Japanese, themselves. While polite and courteous, a wee bit xenophobic they might easily be considered. And they are not alone. The root of absolution lies first in contrition - if you are not sorry, then an apology has no meaning.Japan has some serious caca on it shoes from stepping on other folks' s**t; so does China, so does the US and Germany and France and so on and so on. Why? Because they are countries filled with people and people do bad things to other people if they don't think the other people are as 'people-y' as themselves. This plays out on the country to country scale and the person to person scale. The first step is remembering that the 'others' are people too - just like you.
I forgot to mention that I am not the Jennifer who posted in the first place. I am just Jennie. :) And well said, "a questioner," we should always respect the other human beings.Just read an article written 3 years ago. Sad that things have not moved forward at all in the past three years.http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?eo20020617jl.htm
I don't have problem with Jennie's thought. But, hey, I thought Jeniffer=Jennie. :( Anyway. I appreciate Jennie for taking time to answer my rough questions. To: Jennie and jeniffer. 1) I know she is Chinese-American. It was my misunderstanding thatshe has affiliation with communist party. She was only Anti-Japaneseactivist in China. 150,000, yes still a lot, but down from 300,000 isconsiderable difference. I think Chinese government started from more.This 'Rape of Nanjing' protesters' reference always converges to thisbook. So You should ask any historian in US about this book like I didin UofI where she graduated. "Lacking the truth of a report, the valueof 'Rape of Nanjing' is only to shock readers as much as obscure porn.",this is what I got. 2) Yes, grass-rooted. Fortunately I can read Chinese a little bit, soI was watching some of them."There is Japanese car parked at XXXX,XXX. Let's gather there and watchthe car being destroyed!" I don't know what actually happened with that car.Just I can't forget that post. I feel sorry for the owner who is probably Chinese.In that country, isn't all information controlled or filtered? Hasn't ithappened because of the Chinese textbook?I still suspect Chinese government supported it, or simply let them do. 3) You should know about the system more. Among hundreds history textbooks in Japan,a textbook protested by China is being used by a few schools. In other Japanesetextbooks, there are mentions of Nanking. Last time in 2002 when I read Chinese history textbook which I borrowed from myfriend, Chinese history at the time of WWII was described as a flow below.[Decayed government => Western invasion => Japanese Killers => Great victory ofcommunists]Japanese lost because the red army defeated them, it says. And therearen't any mention of Hiroshima or Nagasaki. But it could be described differently now, Jennie.Also I remember, in Chinese textbook:
  • No mention of negative fact about Mao's policy.(From western view. In 1950's, the government created 35 million dead.)
  • China has never had a war except for its defense purpose (Tibet, Vietnum?)
  • Korean war began because US invaded North Korea.
These are I don't really care. Countries have their own views. How I felt wasthat there is no wonder that people who grew up with this textbook areperforming racism against Japanese and American. I also examined Korean textbookand that had more supernatural reasoning. 4) No, they don't have to have victims among them. But it makes me think they'dnot be victims whom they are fighting for. Indeed not being persuasive to others,Chinese government is putting it on diplomatic table. 5)In 1998, there was a segment on TV which Iris Chang and Japanese high officialis talking about this matter (it was Dan Rather's news so must be on CBS :) ).Official: "Japan has been apologizing continuously. Japan has admittedJapanese army did cruel thing in China and expressed sorry for its victims. Ialso personally feel brabrabra..."Iris: "I don't hear you apologizing. Japan was wrong and Japan is wrong now." jeniffer, like you, I'm always asking to myself 'What'd good apology be toChinese?'. That's why I'm posting my questions on this page.Chinese government raise these issues when it begs money to Japanese.Japanese knows it, and pays money silently, thinking "Maybe we should stop this now,or they will take everything they want from us which we have to keep for ourfuture.". After more than 50 years, Chinese are still begging money. Look atthe recent movement in China, it seems like Chinese would love to suffer themforever. Even if they get another apology, they say give us one more, more, and more.I clearly remember Iris Chang said in the past, "If they had apologized andthought they're really sorry, they would have to be apologizing again and again".Political, and very sick motivation, isn't it. Now I think Japanese is seeing the movementas a natural disaster, same as earthquake, happens every 2-4 years. 6) Fair. Is there any demonstration or protesters about these issues in China?If there isn't, I do not think China deserves to protest against Japan. Anti-Japanese feeling expanded, In April, 2005. According to newspaper,Three China-loving Japanese male students beaten with a phrase"All Japanese must die" have been sent to a hospital for months.Shops has been rubbed, and embassy has been attacked. Rumor says a femalestudent has been "actually" raped in Beijing. Theseinformation has been curved into the mind of people around the world. Japanese is not protesting or responding like Chinese does. Japanese are,and were not showing barbarity which Chinese believes Japanese supposes to have.Where does this gap come from? Chinese government is not mentioning, nor apologizing about what happened andwould happen (Apr/17,again) in Beijing. Boycotting Japanese products is good.That'd be a cute move which they're used to.But rape? violence? racism? NO. Don't do it to Japanese. I was upset because I can read Chinese and I'm watching thishappening. What you wrote on original post made sence to me but youhave attached the mail which is easily seen as bad as the spamentitled "Enlarge your pe*is". That was I thought reckless move. To a questioner. You say German payed reparations for WWII, so Japan did.You say German apologized about WWII, so Japan did. Ask Germany "Was there Auschwitz?". Answer is still No. Now you must shut up. Thanks
The rape of nanking is not a fictional event, it really did happen. How would japanese people feel if it happened to them, such as hiroshima and nagasaki then denied it ever happen. It would be an insult to your way of life. The history factor has been existant for a long time mostly ignored by the japanese government but is now vermently used as a justification to prevent japan for getting into the UNSC, it is this insentivity that has be used as a ploy to prevent japan from joining the security council. The problem have been not corrected when it could have been. How hard is it to appolgised. japan should be prevented from joining the security council because at the moment the japanese government are insentive and still offending other neighbourly country. Firstly, it must behave properly, appolgize and behave sensitively like the german did, whom for the most part are repentant, at the moment that is impossibility, and then i would like them to join. What kind of country kow-tows to western countries when it cannot keep the peace with its neighbour at home.
First off, let me say that this is the original blogger, Jennifer (two Ns, one F) and that I never go by "Jennie." While I appreciate Jennie's posts, we are definitely not the same person. (If I wanted to disguise myself, I would pick a totally different name, like Frank. I mean really.)Secondly, it's not okay to tell anyone to shut up. We appreciate dialogue here, that's the point of a blog. Plus it's rude.I posted the email forward at the end of my blog so that people could see what I was talking about. While it's very strongly worded, I don't think it's inaccurate. Yes, it only addresses one side of things, it doesn't talk about the wrongs of the Chinese or US (or Laotian or Brazilian) governments. That's not its point.There's no doubt in my mind that history textbooks in China play up the triumphs of the communist party, ignore the suffering brought on by Mao's reign, and could use a good rewrite. How can that come about? I don't see the government issuing a mea culpa on its own --if it's going to happen in this generation (which is unlikely), it can only happen if people demand it, fight for it.Which is much the same as the textbooks in Japan. Who is going to fight for change, who has that much passion about it? The victims, who are Chinese. So how can anyone say they don't have a right to protest?Of course I don't agree with violence, especially to human beings.I agree with Harry on one point --this is not only about the victims of the war. It's about fear for the future. A lot of people perceive that Japan is getting more militant --more aggressive in its claim of disputed territory, and murmuring of building up a full army, not just the National Defense Force. And if the war is forgotten in the textbooks and by the politicians, it could happen again.I think this is a reasonable fear, in light of everything that's happened in the States. It's been less time since the US invaded Vietnam, and here we are again in Iraq, sending our young and undertrained troops into a confusion that few understand and no one knows how to end. Here we are, rounding up anyone who seems somewhat Arab and locking them away, with no due process, for years at a time. (An 11 year old was held at Guantanamo for more than a year. 11.) So I understand the need to remind the powers, those who would jump blindly into conflict, the need to look back.Harry seems to be saying to let history be in the past, to not demonize Japan because everyone has dirt, nay, blood, on their hands. And for everyone who's been a victim, that's a healthy process to go through. But I also think that it's one that the victim must call the shots on. China has been slow to start this, so it's delayed in getting past it.As for the secret reparations from Japan to China --I've never heard of such a thing. Can you give us a reference or tell us where you heard this? At any rate, since the point of reparations are more of an emotional salve --an act of contrition rather than a true repayment (what's the monetary value of a rape, a torture, a murder?) it seems counterproductive to keep them secret.
Harry,in actuality, the Germans are building several tributes to the memories of the victims of the concentration camps, including Auschwitz, which should be open soon. The current concentration camps, if they were not destroyed in the aftermath of the war, have been 'maintained' as memoriums. I think that the Germans have dealt with their past pretty candidly. The Austrians may have some weak spots. The history (both recent and somewhat removed) of mainland China's human rights abuses is much harder to come by and their press is still controlled by the Communist Party, so the free exchange of ideas is not the norm in China. In fact, this type of debate on China's Human Rights past would be forbidden in the PRC.Japan should not downplay or repress the facts of its history in China, Korea or the Phillipines, China should not do the same of its history in Tibet, Vietnam or within its own borders, the US should not do the same regarding Laos, Nicauragua or regarding African Americans here, Canada has a troubled past with its unfair restrictions on the immigration of Indians.So instead of hurling stones at the various sides, what actiosn are YOU going to take so that stones are not the first thing that we all reach for?
germans not only apologized, but their entire current contstitution was created in collaboration with the allies. one of the basic tenets, one of the raison d'etres of east germany's constitution was "antifascism". all germans (east and west) have been raised with an abject horror of all things nazi. the public display of swastikas, ss symbols (including the band KISS's logo), nazi salutes and even goose stepping is illegal in germany. their history textbooks have long chapters on nazism and the horrors of the holocaust. there are whole departments in their universities devoted to the topic. just as white americans' identities nowadays are built on the idea that america has gotten past the civil rights era and they are no longer racist, germans' identities are built on antifascism, and the idea that they are all thoroughly guarded against fascism and anti-semitism. it's not entirely true, but they're trying trying trying.can you say any of these things about the japanese, or the japanese government or the japanese educational system? the only reason to compare japan's and germany's internal cultural wrestling with their fascist pasts is to contrast the radically different handling each has given to it.we can present the chinese government with a long list of complaints about their human rights abuses. that is a SEPARATE MATTER AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RAPE OF NANKING. just because the chinese government consistently stomps on human rights doesn't mean that the japanese don't owe the chinese an apology. the japanese owe the apology and HAVE NEVER MADE IT. MAKE AN APOLOGY ALREADY! SAY "I APOLOGIZE"! "regrets" don't do the job.it's time to stop using other, more recent wrongs as an excuse not to acknowledge and correct past wrongs. get it done, finally. then we can move on to other things.
by the way, harry, auschwitz isn't IN germany. and where on earth did you get the idea that germany was denying the existence of auschwitz? if you've ever been to berlin, the enormous jewish museum and holocaust memorial on prime real estate in the city center would put you straight on that point.
Japan is a perverted and twisted country that has never fully owned up to its war time atrocities. They produce, fully support as a country and partake in the largest economy of filth and child porn of any nation in the world. And we Americans stupidly support them by blindly buying their cars, inane brain washing games, electronics and media. Boycotting Japanese products will send a message to the evil Japanese that the world DOES NOT tolerate their acceptance and proliferation of child porn and sex slaves.
Gotta hand it to you Harry - you absolutley crushed that one out of the park. Well-informed, balanced look. I could not agree with you more.
Um... If I boycott, do I have to throw away my Playstation 2? Should I keep the components made in other parts of Asia? Should I also stop watching SONY Pictures movies? What about my Aerosmith and Pearl Jam collections from the SONY music label? Oh, and I guess I'll stop using my PC, too. Does Hyphen accept blog entries via snail-mail?
Tensions appear to be winding down, for the time being at least, between the two Asian giants, China and Japan. But since one or the other is fated to control the region, this can only be a lull - unless (horror of horror!) they decide for some future reasons to form an anti-American alliance.The move to open conflict seems to have been temporarily postponed for now, according to the stories on http://www.survivalistskills.com/NEWS43.HTMThere's also a fascinating page of current news articles on the rise of China, the collapsing dollar, the declining U.S. economy, and the New World Order at http://www.survivalistskills.com/newsitem.htm, which makes for interesting daily reading!
This is no brianer why all you can't see this! Take time to think about this! Idiots! I belong human race, so logically I am must be ido it also, I belong to so call human race?Blame not the stupid, idiots... world masses of the humans race but why follow a few evil leaders charistmistic, hypnotic immoral filth speechs... Instead, but find ways get rid, by Peaceful means only! , rid of all the evil ruling world leaders and his confidants = No War! Replace with antiwar leaders, it would be nice with Gods Kingdom! For PEACE, LOVE ... to occur; the human masses must Open There little damned beady eyes! Its a no brianer, the ===> " few Evil Leaders are the root causes of all ill will for the human race in this materislistic world plane"; which world masses does not see yet. When evil leaders say we go to war for nationalistic reasons... or for what ever reasons, we follow like naive zombie robots into war, mass suicide...! Human destruction! WAKE UP IDIOTS!When the damned human masses wakes up, it will be too late. I dont feel sorry! (Another human fraility!) The End? Start a revolution, but a peaceful demontration to "rid all the worlds evil leaders" (Than will have world peace!) and replace with? Realistically Will be nice with gods kingdom!It not easy task, we need to open our eyes now! Start a revolution for the world masses, not war, but a start Peaceful demontration for world peace rid of evil leaders tan will will be able to see peace, love...!(Mantra)Solution to Peace, love ... get rid evil leaders and save mankind!Solution to Peace, love ... get rid evil leaders and save mankind!Would like to here all your comments! Maybe all will start a blog spread the words to human masses for peace! Take Action now for Peace! Than will see better tommorrow, maybe or maybe not! Hopefully for peace!With gods help we should all Pray for Peace, Love ... and rid all evils in the world! AmenBy ONE of Idiot Human race!
This is no brianer why all you can't see this! Take time to think about this! Idiots! I belong human race, so logically I am must be ido it also, I belong to so call human race?Blame not the stupid, idiots... world masses of the humans race but why follow a few evil leaders charistmistic, hypnotic immoral filth speechs... Instead, but find ways get rid, by Peaceful means only! , rid of all the evil ruling world leaders and his confidants = No War! Replace with antiwar leaders, it would be nice with Gods Kingdom! For PEACE, LOVE ... to occur; the human masses must Open There little damned beady eyes! Its a no brianer, the ===> " few Evil Leaders are the root causes of all ill will for the human race in this materislistic world plane"; which world masses does not see yet. When evil leaders say we go to war for nationalistic reasons... or for what ever reasons, we follow like naive zombie robots into war, mass suicide...! Human destruction! WAKE UP IDIOTS!When the damned human masses wakes up, it will be too late. I dont feel sorry! (Another human fraility!) The End? Start a revolution, but a peaceful demontration to "rid all the worlds evil leaders" (Than will have world peace!) and replace with? Realistically Will be nice with gods kingdom!It not easy task, we need to open our eyes now! Start a revolution for the world masses, not war, but a start Peaceful demontration for world peace rid of evil leaders tan will will be able to see peace, love...!(Mantra)Solution to Peace, love ... get rid evil leaders and save mankind!Solution to Peace, love ... get rid evil leaders and save mankind!Would like to here all your comments! Maybe all will start a blog spread the words to human masses for peace! Take Action now for Peace! Than will see better tommorrow, maybe or maybe not! Hopefully for peace!With gods help we should all Pray for Peace, Love ... and rid all evils in the world! AmenBy ONE of Idiot Human race!
Just a few pertinent facts that don't seem clear:The "textbook" in question, "Shin Rekisi Kyoukasho", or "New History Textbook", was approved by to be on a list of books that can be chosen from by individual schools. As Harry (I think) mentioned, almost NO schools actually adopted the textbook. I have read the relevant parts of the textbook in Japanese. They are inadequate, I think. There is a problem, and it should be addressed.However, I think some people should think hard about why China has allowed the protests to take place. Remember, this is a country that will arrest people for sitting down and meditating in public (Falun Dafa). Maybe you should take a look at their textbooks, and media, instead of offering a vague sort of "sure, it's bad, but..." Of course, if you can't read Chinese or Japanese, you are just taking other peoples' word for things, and its hard to be sure of the foundation of your beliefs.As for Yasukuni Jinja, the shrine that "houses Japanese war criminals":Yes, Yasukuni enshrines the souls of war criminals. It also enshrines the souls of every Japanese who died in war since it was built in the Meiji era. I was once as opposed to these Yasukuni visits as many of you seem to be. But then I stayed at a house of a family whose family member had died in World War 2. His picture was on the wall, near the family altar. He looked to be about 17. And his soul is also enshrined at Yasukuni. At this point, I asked myself, Are the Japanese as a people to be denied the right to publicly pray to all of these war dead, just because the shrine their soul's are enshrined in also contains the souls of "bad-guys"? (that was an ugly sentence, but I'll let it stand :))Do you think that people who visit this shrine are really going there to honor the memory of "war-criminals"? or is that 17 year old boy automatically a "war-criminal"?There is no "thesis" to string these disparate comments together; merely the desire to say, things are often more complicated than they appear, especially, when you are on one or another side of a conflict, but maybe even more especially when you are outside of the conflict.
This is no brianer why all you can't see this! Take time to think about this! Idiots! I belong human race, so logically I am must be ido it also, I belong to so call human race?Blame not the stupid, idiots... world masses of the humans race but why follow a few evil leaders charistmistic, hypnotic immoral filth speechs... Instead, but find ways get rid, by Peaceful means only! , rid of all the evil ruling world leaders and his confidants = No War! Replace with antiwar leaders, it would be nice with Gods Kingdom! For PEACE, LOVE ... to occur; the human masses must Open There little damned beady eyes! Its a no brianer, the ===> " few Evil Leaders are the root causes of all ill will for the human race in this materislistic world plane"; which world masses does not see yet. When evil leaders say we go to war for nationalistic reasons... or for what ever reasons, we follow like naive zombie robots into war, mass suicide...! Human destruction! WAKE UP IDIOTS!When the damned human masses wakes up, it will be too late. I dont feel sorry! (Another human fraility!) The End? Start a revolution, but a peaceful demontration to "rid all the worlds evil leaders" (Than will have world peace!) and replace with? Realistically Will be nice with gods kingdom!It not easy task, we need to open our eyes now! Start a revolution for the world masses, not war, but a start Peaceful demontration for world peace rid of evil leaders tan will will be able to see peace, love...!(Mantra)Solution to Peace, love ... get rid evil leaders and save mankind!Solution to Peace, love ... get rid evil leaders and save mankind!Would like to here all your comments! Maybe all will start a blog spread the words to human masses for peace! Take Action now for Peace! Than will see better tommorrow, maybe or maybe not! Hopefully for peace!With gods help we should all Pray for Peace, Love ... and rid all evils in the world! AmenBy ONE of Idiot Human race! RayCPlease post on this site only
I think Chinese people are tired of meaningless words such as "regret" and "remorse". Instead, they want, and deserve, a heartfelt, official apology backed by the Japanese Parliament (the Diet) for the atrocities committed by the Japanese Imperial Army.Here is some interesting information and quotes from Japanese and International sources in reference to Japan's militaristic past:http://www.skycitygallery.com/japan/japan.html#forgive
First, while I agree that the Japanese atrocities in WW II were inexcusable, I don't quite see how words like 'remorse' or 'regret' are meaningless. It would seem that a good portion of the underlying cause of this recent hubbub is the possibility of Japan being given a permenant place on the UN Security Council. Looking over that roster, it rings a bit hollow that a history of 'atrocities' on Japan's part is a barrier to their membership. The permanent roster includes such notables as France (can you spell 'colonialism'?), Russia (can you spell Lenin, Stalin, 'pogroms'?), the UK (colonialism again for the block and slavery too!), the USA (do I need to mention slavery, Jim Crow, the Chinese Exclusion act, Patrice Lumumba, Chile, Argentina, Central America, Native Americans, etc, etc) and China (Cultural Revolution, Falon Gong, prison labor camps, Tibet). The unifying factor is NOT 'honor and dignity for all human kind' but THEY ALL HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS!!! So 'security' appears to be maintained by making sure everybody keeps their collective hands where they can collecively see 'em. Back to the point, the issue is more likely China's desire to be 'the big dog' in Asia and not wanting Japan to have a position of prominence as an 'opposing power'. The inclusion of another non-white nation is welcomed by this writer (although, I might debate Japan's political identity as either 'non-aligned', 'southern' as opposed to 'northern' or even really non-Western - they sometimes seem like 'white folks - the remix'). To all those that protest Japan's inclusion based on WW II crimes, do you have equal angst about the other members given their less than spotless past? Or is it that they gored other oxen, so it isn't your problem?Lastly, while there is caca on the shiny shoes of Japan's political leadership, I also have to say that I think some of the PRC's reasons for fanning these flames at this time is the 'bread and circuses' affect. Distract your populace from real issues that affect them by giving them an external boogeyman to 'hate'. Can you spell 'Saddam Hussein'?
Your pride, China, will lead to a great crash, but faster than your current ascent! Is the thirst for blood now,not WORSE than that of the past? Yes,there are many guilty nations,but you seem to WANT to take the cake!! So who is the liar!?
yo the nazis were bad and the japanese did good and so did the chinese
The truth is your arguments have no meaning to anyone.These arguments have no effect on these Chinese-Japanese issues.The truth is it doesn't matter if Japan apologizes because China is awakening once more.The sleeping giant is awakening and the world will tremble before it!Japan does not matter any longer.Japan has always been an inferior nation to China for more than 2000 years since its exsistence.China has far more important things on it's agenda than Japan.Japan is crumbling slowly ever so slowly,but China is rising again quickly to its former glory as the Middle Kingdom creator of civilization!Japan is threatened by their creator that they betrayed in the last century to take what ever it had left .The past is the past.People will soon realize that this is "China's century"and nothing else can stop this awakening power!The future is China's!Japan will have its judgement day if it assists Taiwan along with any other power!John Harder.
Um...I'm still confused. So, Japan doesn't have to apologize, and I don't have to throw away my Sony Playstation 2? Gee, I can't wait for China's Century to start. Will they have some cool video games? Is Gwen Stefani going to be able to do a song with the Beijing Girls? And hey -- who knows -- maybe they won't block blogs in China, huh? That is SO now... In 5 years? In 10 years? Maybe 50? A 100...? Well, I guess it could be the NEXT century (or the one after)... Can't wait! (ZZZzzz...)
some chinese people just don't get it. Japan have ALREADY apologize MANY TIMES ! jeeze..
Im with Jennifer.I dont like Japan.They are liers.Theyre lieing because they dont want other nations to know what happened.Japan wants the whole world to love them . So they can rule the world.YEAH, THATS WHAT THEY FRIGGIN WANT!!!
all i have to say is. i'm chinese. and i'm glad you guys were nuked. you will never apoligize for your crap. and i don't care.yay america for using the only nuclear weapons ever used during war on you guys!
"...i'm glad you guys were nuked."so there we have it. the express bus to peace, love and understanding.well, well, well - isn't that special.
Um... What's a "lier"? Is it some kind of a creature that is native only to Japan? What is this activity called "lieing"? Does it only take place in Japan?
Are Japanese textbooks distorting history?http://www.geocities.jp/baud_2005/tx310.html
I am Japanese in my 20's.Not every young Japanese really know about Japanese War Crimes in the early 20th century.I remember when I was taking World History class in high school, the textbook was wrriten about "Nanjin Massacre"not much details, but I felt terrible. I have researched about WWII and Japanese crimes from books(American, UK's) and websites. I actually felt embarrassed about Japanese and am sorry for Chinese and other Asian countries that were invaded Japan.But Not all Japanese wanted to go on war or wanted to commit war crimes.Most Japanese people just followed and obeyed to the country.And Probably most of Japanese militalies who commited crimes were braiwashed or did their duties. Only some of househlds had a radio that was controlled by Empire Japan.Emperor and Militaly generals knew when Japan had no chance to win the War,They hidded those informations and anything that are bad for Japanese. People believed emperor and political leaders. So , please remember that there were innocent Japanese people during that time.Japanese War crimes and Perl Horber are shameful history in Japan, and I believe that Japan will never do the same mistake again.
"China is rising again quickly to its former glory as the Middle Kingdom creator of civilization"Hahahahaha...that's a good one! I needed a laugh this afternoon.Seriously though, aside from the fact that China is still a communist country that only provides heavily distorted news to their still mostly impovorished people, they are, at the end of the day, a cheap goods producer. And this is fine. China is exporting tons of products and making money. Good for them!Japan does not specialize in cheap products - they make quality, high-tech ones, but MUCH more importantly, Japan is a "head" economy which designs the high-tech products, offers the high-end services and orchestrates the show. China on the other hand is a "body" economy. They get an order for 100,000 widgets and they make them. Yes, there are exceptions and yes there are of course very smart people in China. But on the whole, the above is true. And you may be familiar with these terms already...but the point is, these two countries are not in direct competition with each other in terms of product/service offerings. So to say that either one of these countries is "irrelevant" is simply ludicrous.As for the original topic of this thread about apologizing for war crimes...Japan has already apologized on several occassions. That said, I have NO desire to downplay the rape of Nanking - it was a very real, horrifying event and it should be included in Japanese textbooks. True.However, a boycott on Japanese goods is unnecessary and ridiculous...and besides, let's face it, it's never going to be accepted on a major scale, so it will more of a personal protest than a boycott.