I see since ive moved to America you guys have posted more on this topic. Well im going to miss going to Sinapore, man those have got to be the most beautiful Asian women in the world. All mixed up. Club Phreak, man what a joint, but any hoot. Most foriegnors come to America and locate in the Black neighborhood and get rich off the Black Consumer. I grew up in Arlington , TX your not allowed to open a licquer store there. You have to go to the black communities to consume alchol. My wife is Asian and beautiful. We wnt to the international district in Seattle called uwajimaya, the Asian part of town. My wife said that some White men were giving the look like "What is a fine Asian girl like you doing with this Black guy", I caught on to it later, but what a feeling. I read Hyphen magazine. I read the interviews. I particuly like the one by momo chang.

Raj,I would expect to see Asian people on TV in Asian countries as experts on toics other than Asia. Japan is a pretty homogeneous society (it is very much mostly Japanese). Now please don't start positng about how "you know some _____ non-Asian in "your Asian country name goes here". I think that with the exception of Singapore and Hong Kong, most Asian countries are pretty 'homgeneous' - now this homogeneity may be of a single ethinc group (like Korea) or it may be more diverse across the pan-Asian array (Singapore or The Phillipines) BUT it is still largely Asian. I am talking about in the US, Canada and Western Europe. Which of course is the source point for, and the geographic center of the original (but long lost) topic of this thread - the incredible explosion of Black Male/Asian Female 'couplings' on PRIME TIME (aka non-cable) TV in the US (and by extension Canada) despite the fact that such couplings are in the extreme minority in those same countries.

some People in here talk out the side of their necks. If im correct isnt Allen Keyes married to someone of sepia decent. I see theres a post in here about Bai Ling, I can name a tone of movies with her and Black dudes getting it on. I dont want to see her naked because she is to dam skinny.

http://www.jafa.org/Check it this site people. If this keeps up Black dudes are gonna take completely over as sex gods

This pairing of an Asian girl aka Indian girl with a black guy is so so rare.......why not portray that which is more common rather than less common?What gets me is...........why always always have a black person as part of the EQUATION? Isn't it remotely possible to mix another two ethnic misses which are as unlikely as AW/BM?God help us and by the way.....I agree fully with Kashmirjat

Mindi:Its usually whites dudes. Like 98 percent of the time. Its also rare for Black men, for that matter even Asian men are never part of the equation. you cant honostly say you see this all time on TV. Its a smart move, when ever black people are shown it always gets people attention. Mindi went as far to say God help like what a big sin it is to place a BM/AW. Im Black/Asian of mix so understand my concern. I love my father whose African American, as my mother who is Japanese.

Decades ago, East Asians (formerly known as Orientals) were stereotyped as smart. Before it was politicaly incorrect, the "smart stereotype" was cemented in the minds of Americans as belonging to genetics.In addition, east asian men had to be labelled as morally inferior and villainous in order to justify the colonization of China, internment of Japanese during WW2, the Chinese Exclusion Act, and the war in Vietnam. Also war in Japan and Korea also has caused problems for East Asian men.Men often choose women based upon physical traits -- and this may be resultant upon evolutionarily choosing a female mate based upon childbearing suitability (hence the preference for youthful looks), good genetics (beauty) and good health (good skin & hair).Thus east asian women have been regarded as having good genetic stock. Darker skinned people have been unfairly stereotyped as having less worthy genes.Recently due to the prominence of the tech boom, South Asian/Indians have proved themselves to whites as being equals in intelligence -- due to their success in technology, medicine, etc...Thus South Asian women are also now coming onto American men's radar, as being likely to produce smart babies.On TV, the matching of an asian woman with an "American" man may be more palatable to core demographic audiences than having depicting a positive/romantic asian man - "white" woman couple.In addition, in order to appeal or appease an african american audience, it would be more "palatible" to "give" an asian woman to a black man rather than show a long term depiction of a black man and a white woman -- even though for representative depiction among interracial couples, BM/WF vastly outnumbers BM/AF.

HMMM

Actually, knowing a number of Asian American men with African American women, I'm somewhat disappointed that our interest in the media always seems to focus on Asian American women with African American men.Well, come to think of it, I really can't think of an example right now, and I suspect those few instances where it's depicted it's probably just played up for laughs, rather than exploring what such couples really go through.I'm going to keep this short because if I start writing at length about the matter I'll wind up feeling disgusted by all media. Again.

Well Anon and Bryan, you guys seem to have overlooked the fact that while BM\WF outnumber BM\AF or AM\BF pairings as a percentage of the total number of 'couples' for BM\other or AM\other couples, the AF\WM pair-off is HUGH as a percentage of the total number of AF\others (over 98% of Asian women who marry non-Asians marry white men) and form a pretty significant block of the total number of 'coupled' Asian women (~30%). The thing that strikes me as odd is that the TV couple world would make you think that the AF/WM pairing was an oddity when in actuality it is the overwhelming majority of AF\other pairings. Art is NOT imitating life and life is NOT being represented in art. Why?

"Societal pressures to conform to one cultural identity over another silences voices of difference"--mudphudgirlMost definitely. It amazing the amount of individuality (and the variability it allows) we often may give up for the comfort of "belonging." Though this state of belonging brings little comfort at all---the myriad of indentity crises. Often times it seems as though minority groups emphasize external difference in hopes of washing away internal differences, but this cannot be done. Though we may share many commonalities as minorities and within our specific minority grups, each of us has an entirely different experience just as our white counterparts each have (and are free to with less judgement) entirely different experiences. This brings me to a questioner.First up, thanks...I typed that at about 2:30am...sorry for the ridiculous amounts of typos..."I think that minorities need to free themselves to be as 'variable' as whites. We need to say 'Yup. I am complex so I can be anywhere and anything and you just have to deal with the fact that I won't fit in your preconceived box'." --a questionerI agree absolutely. Somehow it seems that to many people limited interests is also a part of being "black." And, I'm not pointing fingers at either blacks or non-blacks unilaterally. Professors can't seem to understand that it may be that a black student may not wish to write soley about "black themes." Advisors can't seem to understand that black students may want to take civ classes that may deal with cultures outside of their own. And, if we want to travel to a corner of the globe without a significant black history or community, we are put to the question. For example, when people discover that I want to go to Tokyo for a year, I always receive more raised eyebrows and questions than my other non-black counterparts as though it is normal for that they should strive to be "variable," but not for me. I am immediately asked if I really like anime or ninjas...both questions make me shiver. (as though Japanese culture (or any for that matter) can be whittled down to such simple catagories) I leave why this is up to the speculation of the reader. It never occurs to them that I may want to see the one ironic case of westernization during the advent of new imperialism, or appreciate a new way of living . This is something everyone should do if they have the chance, I think. Imagine if everyone came to understand that there are more ways--vastly different ways--of doing things than they had ever conceived. Imagine if they came to understand that their way is not necessarilly the right way. And imagine what liberation we would attain if we as minorities allowed ourselves this freedom to experience life outside of our own predetermined cultural construct.

In America Maybe, but im Black and Have an Asian wife. Like the Black guy in the picture, I to am in the Military as well. From a Military point of view those of us who are stationed overseas such as Japan, Hawaii, and Korea would find this common. BM/AF couples. More BM/AF couples than whites. I understand in America its may be a different story. Pop Stars Amerie, Krystal Kaye, Kimora Lee Simmons, Denise Lawton, Mia J. along with Athletes Tiger Woods, Hines Ward, Chad and Johnnie Martin, Will Demps just to name a few is evidence that there are relationships among Asians/Black. I also know its certain Asians as well. Ive met Asian girls that said they could never date White guys and Vice Versa. I dont think the media is really focusing on BM/AF couples. Im sorry if you feel that way, but I disagree. If its white guys you want to see Asians with, or other Asians then feel relax, because thats really were all the attention is focused. Im sorry that when ever Black people are put in the spotlight it brings concerns from other people, but I think you are thinking to much.

Think - nice post. One of the most interesting aspects of 'culture' I have found in my travels (which are fairly broad) is that one of your points - "...there are more ways--vastly different ways--of doing things than they had ever conceived." - is something I both agree with....and disagree. In my travels I always find it interesting how many ways there are to live ...and how so many things are the same in so many lives. I think the more people travel and experience both the incredible diversity and commonalities of people in so many places, they would be much less inclined to demonize those 'unlike' themselves as the 'other'.That said, as I watched Gray's Anatomy tonght I couldn't help but notice that a couple with a major part of the medical 'background' storyline reiterated the initial theme of this thread. You guessed it! An Asian Female and a Black Male. Now this has become much more than mere coincidence could explain. I am tempted to drop a note to the show's lead writer. What's up with that???

Rinku Sen here, glad to see that others are also talking and thinking about this particular media representation. Check out my latest blog post on it at Racewire, the ColorLines blog (http:racewire.org), based on a speaking gig I did at the Public Square in Chicago last week. Got an interesting historical perspective there.Please note that I'm not the one saying that Americans no longer notice. That is all from the mainstream media.

A Questioner:are you serious? dude you really have too much time on your hands. Why does it bother you say much to see a black dude with and asian girl. TV is not reality. Greys Anatomy is going to fire Isiah Washington, Sandra Ohs Boyfriend. Dont get to happy, "Daybreak," will replace that lost. I didnt know so many Asian Girls thought Taye Diggs was hot. Well since TV is fantasy, time to fantasize more

I should probably clarify this, that I'm interested more in the matter of who and what Hollywood chooses to present.A questioner, I'm not overlooking 'the statistics', but I'm more interested in the fact that if we do decide to show healthy relationships between inter-racial couples that the experiences of my friends remain largely shoved into the margins, and that as a nation, and as a world, we lose something when those stories, those perspectives aren't heard, aren't seen, whether as ficitonal or non-fictional accounts.

"That said, as I watched Gray's Anatomy tonght I couldn't help but notice that a couple with a major part of the medical 'background' storyline reiterated the initial theme of this thread. You guessed it! An Asian Female and a Black Male. Now this has become much more than mere coincidence could explain. I am tempted to drop a note to the show's lead writer. What's up with that???Answer: Majority of the audience is white, and majority of those are white females. White females do not like the idea of Asian females dating and marrying white men. You talk to a sample of white females at UCLA, this is a familiar complaint. Of course, they are ready to kill you if you suggest that they date Asian men. The TV network has to show some IR. Hence, they show black men with Asian women although they are in the minority."are you serious? dude you really have too much time on your hands. Why does it bother you say much to see a black dude with and asian girl. TV is not reality. Greys Anatomy is going to fire Isiah Washington, Sandra Ohs Boyfriend. Dont get to happy, "Daybreak," will replace that lost. I didnt know so many Asian Girls thought Taye Diggs was hot. Well since TV is fantasy, time to fantasize more."Answer: More an escape from reality. Although black men-white women couple are more common, these would appear only in political commercials to smear the opponent, particularly in the south. Scare the white woman that a black man is coming after her or scare a white family that black men are after their daughter(s). Works in the south. Other than that, you will rarely see an interracial couple involving whites in good light.It does not bother me. Actually I like it. The ER involving the South Asian British woman would make the color conscious Indians who prefer "fair skin" squirm. I like to sit back and watch them get ulcer.

http://www.jafa.org/Check it this site people. If this keeps up Black dudes are gonna take completely over as sex godsPosted by: Anonymous at November 1, 2006 12:56 AMA cultural exchange program between black americans and japanese students automatically correlates into black men turning into the ideal, or sex gods? Dude, give your head a shake. I am not hating on anyone, but from my experiences, most asian-desi women are not interested in black men. Going black men crazy, as an earlier poster put it, is laughable. Is that how you measure yourself; literally? By "spending" a week with some random slut(mentioning the street really authenticates it, by the way, lol). This kind of promiscuity is the major force behind the hiv epidemic in the African-American community. No intelligent, worth-while woman would fall victim to that kind of deviant crude approach. I think the bigger question is, why are so many black men not having relationships with black women, is it an indication of their own inferiority complex?

Lets just clear this up with reality and remove the pc-speak to look at this candidly.There are vastly more BM/WF couples in reality, and this pairing has endured the MOST extreme ostracism through history.Black men have the highest preference for interracial marriage, followed perhaps by white men, and then by asian men.Since a black male audience would like to see black men paired with women of other races on TV and media, the mainstream media would LEAST want to picture and portray black males with white women.The reason for this is that the main TV demographic that the mainstream media caters to are socially conservative whites, also many whites in general don't want to see BM/WF relations touted on TV.And in addition, interracial pairings of men with asian women cause the LEAST CONTROVERSY in the mainstream media and mainstream society.Remember this controversy:(http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,15376,00.html)During a 2004 Superbowl commercial, blonde Nicollette Sheridan is half naked with Terrel Owens. -- And this caused a huge uproar. Would it have been so controversial if Terrel Owens was paired with a half naked black, hispanic, indian, or asian woman?Not likely.from:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage"Although mixed-race partnering has increased, the United States still shows huge disparities between African American male and African American female endogamy statistics. The 1990 census reports that 17.6% of African American marriages occur with White Americans. Yet African American men are 2.5 times more likely to be married to white women than African American women to white men. In the 2000 census, 239,477 African American male to white female and 95,831 white male to African American female marriages were recorded, again showing the 2.5-1 ratio. Despite this, slightly more white men are married than white women. There is also a disparity between Asian American women and Asian American men largely due to the +51% greater absolute numbers of Asian American women in the US as opposed to men, according to the 2000 census.A Black-Asian couple's engagement photo.Asian American women were +250% more likely to be married to a White American man than Asian American men married to a white woman; but, the absolute numbers of Asian American women are only +51% more than men among the six largest Asian ethnic groups.[4] According to the 2000 US Census, Asian American women of the 1.5 generation were +76% more likely to be married to a white man than Asian American men of the 1.5 generation married to a white woman, but the absolute numbers of 1.5 generation Asian American women is +56% more than Asian American men.[4] According to the 2000 US Census, the number of Asian Americans married to non-Asians is +246% more for Asian American females as opposed to males among the six largest Asian American ethnic groups.[4] According to the 2000 US Census, the number of 1.5 generation Asian Americans married to non-Asians among the six largest Asian ethnic groups is +56% more for Asian American women as opposed to Asian American men, but the absolute numbers of 1.5 generation Asian American women is +56% percent more for Asian American women as opposed to Asian American men.[4]With African Americans and Asian Americans, the ratios are even further imbalanced, with +598% percent more Asian female/Black male couples than Asian male/Black female couples according to the 2000 US Census for the six largest Asian American ethnic groups, but the absolute numbers of Asian American women are +51% percent more for Asian American women as opposed to Asian American men among the six largest Asian ethnic groups.[4] Asian Americans of the 1.5 generation and of the five largest Asian American ethnic groups had Black male/Asian female marriages +222% more than Asian male/Black Female relationships.[4] Even though the disparity between Blacks and Asian interracial marriages by gender is high according to the 2000 US Census, the total numbers of Asian/Black interracial marriages are low, numbering only 2.2% percent for Asian male marriages and 10.2% percent of Asian female marriages.[4]The interracial disparity for American Indians is low. According to the 1990 US Census (which only counts indigenous people with US-government-recognized tribal affiliation), American Indian women interrmarried White Americans +2% percent more than American Indian men married White women.[5]"

KashmiriJattThere are so many things wrong with your post (and I mean this in the most inoffensive way possible) that I don't even know where to begin. If I didn't have to write a paper on marx, smith, neo liberalism and deindustrialization tonight, I'd deal with them, but for now, just consider the following." This kind of promiscuity is the major force behind the hiv epidemic in the African-American community."--I'm not African American, but not only is this a logical fallacy, it is incredbily insulting."I think the bigger question is, why are so many black men not having relationships with black women, is it an indication of their own inferiority complex?"This could use a whole lot of explaining. Consider not only what you imply about black men, but also what you imply about black women (and as I black woman, I find this very insulting).But I'll be back to address this in more detail.

Kasmirjatt:Well to be honost with the mass majority of relationships between Black men are with Black Women. Black on black marriage is still in the mid 90s. HIV is not just a epidemic in the black community, but world wide. Its very high in India as well. So sweep around your own back door before you sweep around mine. Dont worry, I dont really know to many black dudes crushing down doors to get a Desi chicks, or any other Asian chick for that matter, and if so like wise, cool. I had some friends in England working for the Dept of State. They were dating these Desi chicks. Some jelious desi dudes told her their parents behind their backs. One of the guys was mad because the girl he liked dismissed him. Revenge I guess.

not having sorted thru all of Anon's numbers yet, let me say this:first - it is impractical (if not intellectually dishonest) to compare absolute numbers. the differences in population counts (african americans to asian americans to white americans) makes such comparison useless. 100,000 white americans is a small percentage of their absolute population (~70%) compared to asians (~7%) so when you compare NUMBERS you quickly get screwy results.second - i think i clearly stated that the PERCENTAGE of asian men and african american women who 'out marry' are much lower than the number of asian women or african american men who 'out marry' ...and i mean percentage of their respective groups.third - while not trying to render the 'off shore military base' experience irrelevant, i think it is obvious that in asian countries OF the asian women that are NOT married to asian men, they will be married to a male sample that more reflects the demographics of the availble non-asian male pool - or the male soldiers. given that and the fact that african americans are disproportionately represented in the military compared to their percentage of the total population (in the USA), there will be a much larger percentage of AA men married to asian women. You have a 'skewed' sample in a unnaturally controlled environment. no good.third - i am not upset that blacks and asians are shown together on TV; i don't know how you got that from what i wrote (but it might be interesting to discuss why you 'assumed' that). i think it is good if it helps to dispel what i think (and seemed to be validated by Sen's anecdotes in the article) an undue tension or hostility between the groups (asian- and african- americans).My question was WHY do you think that popular media is portraying these couples (black\asian) given that the reality of the situation is that there are many, many, many times more white/asian couples?Given the media crafted picture, you cannot help but ask yourself "Why do they not want to show asian/asian relationships? or black/black relationships?" and "why do they not seem to show what is the overwhelming majority of asian/other relationships - asian women/white men - a paring which unto itself has generated pages and pages of blog write on yellow/rice fever and fetishism?"

If blacks do marry outside their race It more than likely would be someone of hispanic origin. How accurate are consensus taken.

Maybe this will help answer some of the questions between mudphudgirl and a questionerhttp://www.amherst.edu/~nsharma/research/hip-hop.html

BM/BF is often shown in commercials and movies.WM/AF is also often shown: Joy Luck Club, Red Doors, ad infinitum --- far, far more often than AM/AF -- especially attractive AM/AF couples in a romantic, positive context.BM/WF is not often shown on TV or movies.To state the obvious, non-white male/WF is still, on average, fairly rare.Again, AM/AF or AM/female-anyrace -- in a POSTIVE context, is the most rare.In fact, on TV, check out the latest Battlestar Galactica series. The main Asian Female character is an enemy cylon traitor who has 2 white boyfriends.If we get out of the mainstream media bubble, the reality is that AM/AF couples far, far outnumber WM/AF couples.By not showing AM/AF relations in a non-villainous way -- in any representive number similar to WM/AF, it is jarringly obvious that there is a real pattern of racism towards asian men in the media. The White media regards asian men as hated sexual competitive threats for white and asian women -- probably because asian men are seen as viable providers with good jobs, or maybe asian men are resented as economic competition.

a questioner:in one of your earlier qoutes, you thought it was strange that a Black man was an expert on European culture? Correct me if im wrong. Dr Sharma is Indian, but she teaches Black American studies at Univ of Cali. Would you find that bizarre as well? Would you consider that maybe some things do exist, such as dating between Asians/black and whom ever? Read Dr Sharmas credits below.http://www.wcas.northwestern.edu/asianamerican/people/faculty.html#NitashaSharma

Anon,you seem to miss the point. first, let's stick to TV and media that is not derived from books. Joy Luck Club is derived form Amy Tan's book - and it should not escape you that she, an asian woman, in control of the story, has romantic relationships between AF and WM. damn! there we go again!you are correct, AM/AF couples outnumber any other AM or AF pairing. this is true for all groups - asian, blacks, whites, latinos. it makes sense doesn't it?and as for commercials - these don't create any 'characters' of note or depth so the 'audience' doesn't feel as though they 'know' any commercial characters. in fact, commercials TRY to look as 'real life' as possible, so that people get the "that could be me" feeling and identify with the product. to whit, there are Am\AF couples on commercials and rarely mixed race couples.IF 'media' was so concerned about asian men as sexual competition for white men, why wouldn't they show WM/AF couples to reinforce their dominance?why show a series of relationships that are not representative of the actual society (American)?Anon, you've touted the number of BM\WF relationships in society, yet TV media rarely shows that without the relationship being at or near the 'heart' of the story. what's up with that?I, like Sen, don't buy the 'we didn't even notice' line. too much coincidence.so let's get all 'conspiracy theorist' here: why not show AM/AF couples? because if you showed stable, working AND sexy AM, white women might say "hey, he's not so bad..." (hence Daniel Kim - sexy guy of Lost) Why make all the BM/AF couples? ...which so far have ended up poorly... To throw AM 'off the trail' of the real 'hunter' (WM) and reinforce the notion of 'go with a black guy and you're headed for trouble'? (except Burke on Grey's Anatomy, but we will see how that turns out) To make AM's 'rebel' against those 'crazed, sex mad black guys' in the real world?and as if to reinforce this Superman's Bizarro World of Love, there is yet another new show which has... ta da!!! a black male married to an asian woman! another coincidence?lastly Anon, your comment about whom blacks 'should marry' if they marry outside their race hints at a less than subtle bias that begins to define the vein from which your other opinions draw blood.

cool/Anonymous,I appreciated the link provided above on Nitasha Sharma's work. AQ and I hadn't gotten to the point yet of discussing the popularity of hip-hop "culture" amongst second generation South Asians, so I think you beat us to it!In her Samar article, Sharma writes:

"What would upwardly mobile, predominantly middle class Indians with immigrant backgrounds have in common with blacks in America?"

In her publication, she also (in line with that thought process) asks:

"1) Why would some members of an upwardly mobile, predominantly middle-class immigrant “model minority” community choose to identify with a group—Blacks—that has been constructed as “disadvantaged”? 2) How do South Asian Americans use hip hop to create and express second-generation identities in urban America that challenge the narrow identity politics of ethnicity? and 3) What is the potential of Black popular culture for fostering interracial alliances between Blacks and South Asians in the U.S.?"

I think that while she answers these questions through a Marxian lens, the IndoLink article written by Francis Assisi adds a spatial analysis which I think also informs what Sharma's arguments are.

"In the process young second generation South Asians in North America are also challenging current theories of race and inter-ethnic relations. As one scholar pointedly observes, “these not-black not-white children of South Asian immigrants are negotiating spaces in the folds of Afro American culture.” [...] Another scholar comments that the Desi youths turn to black culture may be a key to marking their belonging in the multi-ethnic, urban landscape as well as the ultimate definition of "cool." [...] Indian-American youth who grew up in the cities alongside Blacks and Latinos, and went to school with them, and even some who did not, often perform, or acquire "the style, and the attitude, and the walk" associated with that youth subculture."

Sharma and Assisi both seem to imply that hip hop has given second generation South Asians political mobility. Another scholar, Neil Smith, writes (in his 1992 article "Contours of a Spatialized Politics: Homeless Vehicles and the Production of Geographical Scale") on the use of "absurd vehicles" as means to provide space to "facilitate basic needs." The desis that Sharma talks about -- the ones who suffered job losses and were forced to move to urban areas at the start of the hip hop movement -- are not surprisingly the individuals most likely to utilize the "vehicle" that is hip hop in becoming politically empowered. In Smith's words, hip hop's "absurd" appeal to South Asians (as in Sharma's original question: "What would upwardly mobile, predominantly middle class Indians with immigrant backgrounds have in common with blacks in America?") "depends on its practicality" to the disempowered South Asian American. It "expresses and exposes the relations of empowerment and disempowerment" defining his or her experience as the racially and spatially displaced 'other.'While privileged white America excuses (via the Model Minority Myth, homogenization, etc.) South Asian Americans from "active civic responsibility and simultaneously denies them personhood" through the loss of jobs, or their shifting from wealthy neighborhoods to poor urban ones, South Asian hip hop "illuminates this social reality, [...] supporting the rights of these groups to refuse marginalization." South Asian hip hop overcomes "social dislocation" imposed on South Asians relocated as a result of the 1970s economic crisis, allowing them to "make and remake space," hence mobilizing them against white patriarchy's hegemonic control. Hip hop, for South Asians, expresses how inherently spatial the politics of daily life is. Most of all -- even if South Asians relocated to urban areas in the '70s were later able to move out to suburban, wealthier areas -- hip hop remains a way which South Asian second genners born to those who lost their jobs can "jump scales" as a "political strategy of resistance."So hip hop, of the South Asian variety, seems to be an absurd thing; But in its absurdity lies the practical function of being able to politically moblize disempowered South Asians through music (rapping)/dancing/tagging/DJing. So in the same way that hip hop acts as a manifestation of resistance movements for blacks, so does it for South Asians.I really hope I wasn't as confusing as Judith Butler there. Take me down if I was, and I will explicate peeps. (NOTE: anything in quotes is not my work. I don't want Neil Smith, or the others, coming down on my a$$ for plagiarism on a blog thread, LOL!)Loved the articles Anonymous/cool.Best,MPGOh and BTW, RYC to AQ:

in one of your earlier qoutes, you thought it was strange that a Black man was an expert on European culture?

Where's she do that?! Did she really?! I dunno if that's such good form, dude :(*Back to Work!*

I just realized...My bad if cool and Anonymous just before my post at 2:41 pm were not the same people. Get better pseudonyms people!-MPG

This kind of promiscuity is the major force behind the hiv epidemic in the African-American community."--I'm not African American, but not only is this a logical fallacy, it is incredbily insulting.Unfortunately the CDC provides evidence that substantiates my assertion. Here is the link: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/resources/slides/race-ethnicity/index.htm

What? You don't make any sense.And your hostility is repulsive.

Bryan,i agree with you. why not show the full range of things, not just a sensationalized or one-dimensional view...or worse yet, a view which largely does not exist.

Your typical black doctor is an affirmative action retard who continues to lag his classmates throughout his/her career. Medical dramas are politically-correct fantasies with no semblance to reality.http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/prop209.htm

Someone wrote in one post that Black Men prefer to see themselves with women of different races. Thats not exactly true. If you watch movies with All Black writers, and Producers the leading Lady will be Black. "Mississippi Massala" was a movie with a Black Man/Asian Women lead. The Writer, Produder and Directer of that Movie was a Indian Women. The Producers of shows like ER are white, or Jewish. I know LOSThas a Half Black/ Half Asian writer. No one looks at the source. 97 percent of Blacks marry Blacks. The movie "Face" the story of a Chinese girl falling in love with a Black Guy was written, produced and directed by a Chinese woman. BLack Americans are not writing these scripts, or promoting them. Its either Asian, or whites writing these scripts. The relevence I see with this couple here in ER is that the lady is British Indian and He is in the Military, A relationship with an Asian not from America. My wife is Asian, but not Asian American . Some what like the relationship with me and my wife. That was the relevance I was making A Questioner. So I guess the question is why pair women of different colors with black men? I think the reason is because these people know other people will watch and boost ratings.

Anon and cool (one and the same???)WHERE did I write or WHAT did you read that stated, theorized, hinted at or implied that I thought it odd in any way that a Black man could, would or should be an expert in European culture???? I think I CLEARLY (at least it was to me) stated that I was sick and tired of the constant barrage of white persons waxing expertly on subjects that were far reomved from their cultural heritage and that I longed for the day when I would get to see black\brown\beige people talking as experts on topics OTHER THAN being black, brown or biege. Despite the fact that I dislike her politics, I enjoyed seeing Condi Rice in the pre-GWB years speaking as an expert on the Russian - nee Soviet Union - political scene. How refreshing!!MPG!!!! I got your little ditty! I am coming back at ya'!

Notwithstanding BM/AF coupling on "ER" and "Grey's", WM/AF coupling is far more common on TV, film and advertisements.Likewise, BM/WF coupling is far more common than BF/WM, esp. on television.Otoh, of all the race/genders - only AMs are rarely partnered with anyone.

mudpudgirl:I will admit. The best hip hop songs are mixed with indian beats. all Timberland stuff, I really like that song by truthful hurts. I know they sampled that song from a famous Indian singer. Can you tell me her name. this might help you belowhttp://www.amherst.edu/~nsharma/research/hip-hop.html

The reason why there has been BM/AF coupling (even though it is very rare in the US - according to the Census data) on television is due to the default casting of minorities - BMs to represent blacks and AFs to represent Asians.

where did you get this from?third - while not trying to render the 'off shore military base' experience irrelevant, i think it is obvious that in asian countries OF the asian women that are NOT married to asian men, they will be married to a male sample that more reflects the demographics of the availble non-asian male pool - or the male soldiers. given that and the fact that african americans are disproportionately represented in the military compared to their percentage of the total population (in the USA), there will be a much larger percentage of AA men married to asian women. You have a 'skewed' sample in a unnaturally controlled environment. no good.A Questioner:This comment is not accurate. Obviously you never been over here to see why some of these Asian girls make some of the choices they make. From my experience there are a lot of Asian girls overseas that do not date White Guys/ or Black. With Hip Hop culture hitting the forefront through out the world. Girls in a lot of these Asian countries have developed a fetish for Black Dudes. There are just as many whites/ Hispanics in the Miltary as blacks. The point im making is its a matter of choice. Not because Black make up the so called largest portion of the U. S. Military. I do agree with you on one thing. Yes AA /AF make up 95 percent of the Marriages. True, My sister-in-law was pissed when me and my wife started dating. She is Japanese to the core. She hates the Western World and despises the U. S. Military. When my wife was pregnant with our first child it upsetted her, but after my son was born you couldnt keep her away from our house. There are a lot of Asian Women that feel that way. I just want to say to the person that said the mainstream media is trying to appease the black audience is ignorant. Remember blacks do not have faith in the mainstream media. We have our own media BET, UPN, Comedy Central in a sense(joke) Our own TV Shows, and music that for some reason keeps going mainstream. Shows like "ER" is not a show that blacks even watch first of all, Well maybe some. I think you have to look elsewhere for answers(directed at anyone). Call NBC and CBS, ask them why they keep doing this. I dont have a clue. Some people in this room are blaming the Black Community for this. Im not pointing any fingers at anyone, but research the project (writers, producers, Directors) before you make some of these statements.

Hey cool,The woman who sings in the playback music in Truth Hurts is Lata Mangeshkar (An amchigeli aka fellow Konkani, woot woot!...though I guess I'm only allowed half of that claim to fame...). Her music was very popular when my parents were young and...ummm...in love. Her younger sister, Asha Bhonsle, is also quite popular. If you want to get some oldschool hindi albums of their music, I would suggest music from films like Aradhana,Guide, Shor (from 1972), and anything from that era that an Indian store owner starts telling stories of his love life over. But I'll warn you cool, hindi music from the 70s ain't that hot without the beats to cover up the shrill notes. Sorry if I offended any hardcore Bollywood fans here :PAh! BTW...Timbaland is a rapper. Timberland is a shoe brand more lovingly called Timz by people down with the thugish life. And I dunno who that random girl is singing in his song. Her name is Rajeshwari or sumfin or other...Not to be all anti-climactic on you cool, but I actually hate hip hop songs that sample Indian music. I always feel ripped off. For example, the song by BEP called Elephunk Theme has a very popular South Indian song sampled in it, and I highly highly highly doubt that Fergie Ferg was down wit dem Thugulus in South India enough to get her mix done. Ripping other people's work off sucks. And not to mention, the way it is done in the US mainstream music scene is downright orientalist. :/As far as music for the desi diaspora goes, I prefer the UK Bhangra scene. If you want good music there, I could prolly advise you better.I think I totally threadjacked. Oh well!Best,MPG

Hello dontnukeit and others,I'd like to try and make my remarks clearer, so they are not miscontrued or misinterpreted. And in alot of ways, my response is not necessarily a "disagreement post."To clarify my point is this:Why is the media showing BM in interracial relationships, but disproportionately under-representing BM/WF couples?If these stats are correct: "The 1990 census reports that 17.6% of African American marriages occur with White Americans. Yet African American men are 2.5 times more likely to be married to white women than African American women to white men."In the bigger picture of America, BM/WF couples should be represented more on TV than BM/AF couples -- but that won't happen for obvious reasons.(I'd like to stress that there is nothing wrong with interracial relationships as long as racism is not involved.)The likely answer is that:* -- the corporations and mainstream media want to avoid controversy,* -- want to appease their main demographic audiences,* -- and the media depictions also reflect the minds & fantasies of the producers, writers, and directors.In addition, interracial relationships involving AF's are the least controversial on TV because they are depicted the most often. Are some people upset that ER doesn't show AF/WM and then extrapolates that to the rest of TV? That's nonsense. TV and movies have often shown AF/WM couples. Battlestar Galactica is one big example currently showing, and there are others.What is so wrong with casting BM/AF relationships? Nothing. But just like with the white reaction to affirmative action, the idea of the writers may have been to kill 2 birds with one stone. Show "diversity" credentials and deflect criticisms of racism by showing a black man in an interracial relationship, but NOT with a white woman (or white-jewish -- if as indicated, that really reflects the ethnicities of the male writers).The point is that if you look at the pattern of depiction, you can tell that the mainstream media has a real problem in depicting postive/romantic/attractive AM/AF, AM/non-asian, and WF/non-white couples. From the pattern, one can determine from the evidence, the racism in the mainstream media.The pattern of evidence shows a racist bias against postive/attractive depictions of AM heterosexuality, and of WF "miscegenation."

First, I think you have to separate TV from movies. Movies tend to be much more adventurous in terms of topics, casting, 'controversy', etc. Their audience more actively 'chooses' to attend, so there is less 'backlash'.That said, of all of these recent posts, i think 'bean' may have hit the nail on the head! There is obviously a lack of asian men being cast in major TV productions so there are few asian men to draw upon; there are also few (but still more than asian men!) black women cast as primary or lead characters in major TV productions - except when the premise of the show is that they ARE black women. So IF people of colour are to have romantic interests on these programs, they inevitably HAVE to be paired and all that is left is AF/BM!I think that Battlestar Gallactica is somewhat outside the loop. It has a somewhat 'fringe' audience (not a major network) and it is set in some fantastical 'future' where all types of 'unbeleivable stuff' happens. The same is true of Star Trek and similar programs.As for the military thing - i NEVER said that blacks made up the MAJORITY of the military population - that would be damn close to impossible as blacks only make up 14 - 15% of the US population (not that TV would make you think that!). I said that they are DISPROPORTIONATELY represented - which you 'confirmed' if you say that "there are as many hispanics and whites in the military as blacks". Blacks and Hispanics would have to be overrepresented in the military if they had equal percentages to whites. If that is correct and assuming a 30%/30%/30% split (assume the other 10% to be Native American and Asian American), Blacks and Latinos would show up at twice their percentage in the military as they do in the general population since hispanics are only 14 - 15% of the US population as well. Thus two populations that make up only 28 - 30% of the US population are ~60% of the military.[I often find it annoying when news coverage of 'our troops' on some 'in-depth' program manages to show few minorities as 'patriotic boys defending our liberties' when IF they selected in accordance with actual demographics they would have shown probably 30% minorities or more, but that is another thread.]As for Japan or otehr-than-US statistics, the fact that some Asian girls have a 'black fetish' or whatever is irrelevant. Why they marry black men is immaterial, the point is that they do and they do so in much higher percentages OUTSIDE the US (especially at or near military bases). Personally, I think that is fine. They can marry whomever makes them happy.Now Anon's 9/23 post hit some interesting points too. Is there merit in the theory that pairing AFs with non-Asians will create less controversy than pairing any other F 'outside her race'? If true, why? Are AM impotent to complain? Are AFs not likely to complain (since in the US they already do 'out marry' at a rate behind only to Jews and white Hispanics). I also like the thought that to show "miscegenation" amongst white women appears to be largely taboo on TV - unless a bad outcome is also depicted, thus warning against such actions. AND the big question of "WHY NO ASIAN MEN???" still remains.So, TV still shows interracial relationships in ways that are NOT reflective of real life and does not often show either in a positive light (BM/BF) or in any light (AM/AF).For the record, the lead writer or 'creator' of Gray's Anatomy is a black woman. And she has taken some major steps to expand and 'humanize' the character of Dr. Bailey, the loud, tough black doctor who bosses tne interns. That is a good thing.

Yea, cowards like you are jelious for what ever reasons anonymous. If Affrimative Action help Ben Carson the most reknowned neurosurgeon in the world get into Yale, im for it.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_CarsonHey, Greys Anatomy and ER you gotta love it.

"AND the big question of "WHY NO ASIAN MEN???" still remains."In Beerfest, a south asian man hooks up with a black woman. So there's your asian man/black woman representation.

Mudphudgirl:Wow, you just sounded like my mother. When ever a hip hop song comes on the hook would be some old Motown, or stax record joint. She would say all youll doing is ripping off my generation. None of these songs are new and all these dances were out when I was in high school. Since Gospel is the fundamental element, or the Negro sprituals as historians calls it, is the fundamental base for all black music, or music that was derived out of the black community. As I got older I started to listen to a lot of music from her era. It all made sense, I realized were all this music came from. To make a long story short, I understand what you mean when you say Hip Hop today has lost a lot of its originality. I think a lot has to do with commercialism. which will be the demise of this art form. I like jay sean, and sumeet they are good. Have you heard of them? Sorry if I took a wrong turn but always thanks for your time.

who wouldve ever thought michelle of "yellowrage" was with a black dudeAny preferences in dating and/or marriage? What kind of person are you attracted to (Korean? Half/Mixed?), or does it not matter?I'm in a long-term relationship (10 years!) with the father of my daughter, and he is African American. During our relationship, we have taken "breaks" from one another and dated other people, and I have dated Asians and mixed race men during those times, but we've always ended up back together. I think in a perfect world, I probably would really like being with someone who is full Asian or mixed race Asian -- but oftentimes that's more an ideal than reality. Reality is that people are individuals, and not everyone is going to click just because they're the same race. So I think though it's good to have the ideal in mind, we also have to be realistic and recognize when we've found someone really special, regardless what race they are.

The writer, or producer on Greys Anatomy is Half-Asian. Look at her picture. If im wrong then I stand corrected. Someone said 18 percent of Blacks were married to whites. I otherhand looked at a consensus that said otherwise. Its no were near 18 percent. Thats why I do not put so much faith in consensus. They are not always so accurate. The question is WHERE ARE THE ASIAN MEN. Well i guess we need more Asian men in Hollywood at the helm. Maybe its time for an AET. A 24 HOUR Asian channel. Hollywood will never change.

Oh, the great Dr. Ben Carson. American media (and society) wants to see successful and educated black men because they hardly exist. It's a good disguise for actual reality, that black men are far more likely to commit violent crimes, have IQ's that are a standard deviation below the norm, far more likely to abandon their children, and in general be a burden on society. Black men have to be tolerated because they would otherwise riot and destroy cities as they have in 1968 and 1994.

oops, wrong again, IM thinking of "LOST"

When I was in Singapore that song by truthful hurts came on in the club everybody junped on the dance floor, alot people of Indian decent were singing that hook. They like Missy Elliot down there to