AGAIN with the inscrutability!

Claire Light
October 9, 2005

If I had a dollar for every science fiction perpetrator who used Asian languages as a signpost of the future, BUT NOT ASIAN PEOPLE ... well, I'd have a bunch of dollars.

Take Joss Whedon ... please.

His Serenity, a feature film both summarizing and sequelizing his short-lived television drama Firefly, was eagerly awaited by fans of all of Whedon's tv dramas, which--FYI--include Buffy the Vampire Slayer and its spinoff, Angel. Opening week and subsequent viewing has been carefully strategized among Whedonites to optimize the possibility of Firefly returning to the large screen or even the small screen with new episodes and a longer shelf-life.

Well ... yay fandom, as far as that goes. It probably won't work. The near-universal positive reviews of Serenity only show that everyone is capable of copping to the snarky goodness of Joss's brand of adolescent angst expressed in martial arts action, genuinely witty dialogue, and unpredictable plot reversals. That Serenity was poor man's Joss Whedon--Whedon on a bad day, Joss with a cold--doesn't really matter. Nobody wants this badly enough (Joss fans aside) and it probably won't manifest again.

But fortunately for the smokin' Joss sticks who will howl down upon this comments section, that's not my complaint (or contention) today. My beef is this: why would a man intelligent enough to read the Asian tiger on the wall (having all the characters in his future world speak an English/Chinese patois, and all of the spaceship names and call signs translated into Chinese on their hulls), be too stupid to include a SINGLE ASIAN CHARACTER in said world?

Sure, there were maybe enough Asian extras in Serenity to count off on (one of) my hands, but where's the recognition, folks? The slopes are coming, and not just to buy your cheap-ass products (which they're sweat-shopping anyway.) Asian economies are just that: economies. Not wet, gaping holes for you to fill with your junk, but rather whole, integral eco-bitches of cash and power, that will only invite you to join their orgy if you're very, very relevant.

In the world of Serenity, Asians are literally inscrutable. We somehow rule the universe enough to get our main lingo (Chinese, natch) spoken everywhere, yet you can't scrut us. Anywhere. But in fifty years the world really will look more like the establishing shot of Blade Runner (which Whedon jacks with abandon, sans, of course, Asianyness), with the massive moving billboards of future cities burdened with the facets of Asian beauty and Asian power. The politicians you'll love to hate will be Asian. The CEOs who own them will be Asian. The guy in the corner store? Still Asian, but so, too, the cops that park there illegally to grab a dozen you tiu with their coffee, and the kid that stupidly holds up the store while the cops are there. You can't make up, like, over half the world's population, be poised to swoop down upon the new global economy like a hawks on a dazed field mouse, and not end up everywhere. In fifty years, much less five hundred, Asians will be more scrutable than the sky. You won't be able to look away.

Whedon's remarkable whitecentricity was well-taken in Buffy, an extended paean to the dying art of living in the suburbs. It was ridiculous in Angel, a Los Angeles mean-streets demon-ride, with, like, two black people and no Latinos. (I should thank Angel here for offering fans a months-long study of Daniel Dae Kim's jawline, but Angel also gave us the one-too-manyeth view of Bai Ling's cleavage, so I ain't gonna.) But let's take credit away where credit doesn't belong, people. Joss himself brought up the Asian, and then signally failed to embody it. Maybe it just didn't occur to him, you know, while he was hiring those linguists to inject some Mandarin into the dialogue. Or maybe it did occur to him but og forbid a white auteur privilege Asian characters in an already Asian world.

Time, Jossy, for a little rethink. I know you still consider developed black characters to be shocking and a testament to your racismlessness, but let's really follow your logic out to its conclusions. Maybe you'll find yourself a little more relevant to non-geeks if you bother to really look at the people who already populate and are going to populate the spaces you exploit for your fictions. You're supposed to be smarter than the average white boy. Use it.

UPDATE I'm very pleased to be able to tell you that great minds think alike. Liz, over at Other Magazine's staff blog (I blog there on Sundays) came up with pretty much the same complaint about Serenity completely independently of me. We only found out about each other's blog entries after the fact.

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Comments

Comments

jose wrote on Sun, 10/09/2005 - 6:26pm
The moment I read the headline on APIAblogs, I thought of Blade Runner, and I'm glad you brought up the comparison. Blade Runner and the cyberpunk genre in general always kinda annoyed me in that Asians figured prominently, but were mostly decoration or "flavor", and (Japanese corporate salaryman) stereotypes were the foundation upon which dystopian futures were built. Now it's doubly-annoying in that a slightly more modern world (damn, has it been 23 years?) lets Whedon prognosticate the contemporary Yellow Peril into a subtext of future cultural domination that somehow has no representation of originators of said culture. What the heck is he really saying -- that the Chinese took over at one point, culture got integrated, but Whitey prevailed and retained the [foreign=future] language? I'm glad you called him out on it, but future-based SciFi as a whole is notorious for this type of appropriation.
michael wrote on Mon, 10/10/2005 - 1:38am
Yes you are totally right about this claire - i'm a complete fan of joss' work, and the serenity/firefly work, but watching the entire output left me wondering ..if everyone speaks mandarin (500 years hence), as though the chinese nation became the sole superpower before everyone left earth - what the heck happened to all the asian people??They aren't on the ship, they aren't in government - i'm not sure i saw a single asian face: it's really strange.Joss could do a much better job of parading his 'racismlessness' than this, you'd reckon! Maybe he has an unfolding secret future history about what really happened coming up? Or maybe he's colour blind as you say.
K wrote on Mon, 10/10/2005 - 7:09am
Wow, Claire, angry much? Not much for the meditation, are you . . . Western European cultures have a millenium-long history of co-opting the bits they find cool about a culture while zeroing out the rest. MAYBE a billion or so Chinese (of the Chicago school, from the way you talk) will change that, but maybe not. Whites are busily co-opting Asian culture right now. It's pure Whedon to put it out there for you to look at. How can so many people detect subversion in Whedon's earlier work but fail to see it in FIREFLY and SERENITY? Some need first to have it regurgitated by critics who've made it to the edge long before them (uh, you). Maybe all you want is more Asians employed in American TV or movies, and maybe Whedon is looking at a bigger (or at least a different) picture than you. Ah, give credit where credit is due: he got you to about half see it.
jebusyoon wrote on Mon, 10/10/2005 - 11:21am
i was a fan of buffy, which he didn't have to diversify, but not a fan of angel, so i don't know much of the casting in angel. but for a show that he blatantly placed so many little asian quirks, you would think he'd go out of his way to find some asian actors. i mean, sure, i'd like to see more asian in movies, but it'd be awsome if i'd see some in movies i liked, or in a world someone created that had asian culture in it (makes sense, don't ya think?)
claire wrote on Mon, 10/10/2005 - 12:57pm
K: wow, overthink much? joss whedon does what pretty much every other white boy in this brand of SF does--appropriates asian culture without including asian people--and you just jump to the conclusion that he's actually subverting the appropriation of asian cultures? don't worry, a chiropractor can take care of that kink you got from bending over backwards.ever hear of occam's razor, K? it applies to the interpretation of "art", too. most artistes and auteurs just aren't smart enough to get that meta. and joss has proven over and over and over again that he's not up to snuff on basic ethnic studies one-oh-one, much less really sophisticated meta-critiques like the one you're hurting yourself trying to attribute to him.know what would be subversive? as you put it: "more Asians employed in American TV or movies." yep. that old saw. i wonder when them asians are gonna get off that hobby horse?
Roshan wrote on Mon, 10/10/2005 - 1:52pm
I can't wait for the eventual stupid comment that will say something like "In the future all the races will be mixed together, forming a perfect omni-race. So you can't look at race in futuristic pieces."But if that were true, shouldn't everyone in the movie look a little more Asian (serving ~3 billion and going strong baby!) and less white?
claire wrote on Mon, 10/10/2005 - 3:38pm
actually, i agree that five hundred years in the future, if we're not all dead, we'll be a lot more racially mixed than we are. and i'd love to see a future fiction in the moobies where the cast is 100% multiracial (starring vin diesel, the rock, alicia keys, and kristin kreuk, with music by prince!)but what we're really talking about here is using "500 years in the future" to talk about 50 years in the future. and 50 years in the future there'll be a lot more multiracials and a LOT more asians everywhere.
a point of obs... wrote on Mon, 10/10/2005 - 8:48pm
ummm, Roshan, there are other races besides 'whites' and 'asians', so they will be in the mix too.On the co-opting of culture, this is not strictly a 'Western European Whites' to 'others' thing. Sticking to the 'home front' as it were, couldn't MC Jin and Jeff Chang be said to be 'co-opting cultures', what about Wayne Brady? (a Black WASP if there ever was one!). When is one co-opting versus paying homage? This becomes especially problematic in the US where everything is open to everything else. You've heard about the Hassidic Rastafarian from NY haven't you?Cultural Catfush and black bean sauce with perogies as an appetizer and apple pie for dessert. Bringing new meaning to CuisineArt.
Tony wrote on Mon, 10/10/2005 - 9:07pm
I'm not going to break this down and scrutinize it piece by piece, that'd take too long and there's just too much fertile ground to cover that I'd end up just going on and on.Suffice to say that, if you have a problem with the color palette of this particular universe, then go make your own and leave it at that. If you had the talent and the skill and the connections, you would...but you don't.I'm sorry that your sensibilities have been offended, but I frankly don't care. I'm sick of everybody finding fault with the works of artists. There were folks having issue with "The Lion King's" depiction of minorities, even though there were no humans in it. From "Huckleberry Finn" to everything on UPN, somebody has an issue with race in SOMEthing, everywhere.I'm sick of the whining. Get over yourself.The universe of Firefly contended that the United States and China were the last two remaining Superpowers. When Humanity ventured forth into the stars, the two cultures mingled. Hell, there's some sign of it happening today right here in America, even WITHOUT humanity having to travel into the stars. Who gives a rat's patoot if there are no Asian leads in 'Serenity' or 'Firefly'? There are good stories, there are fine performances, but there are Caucasian leads...big deal. If the series had been allowed to continue, there may very well have been more in the way of Asian performers, but it didn't, so there ain't.Get. Over. Yourselves.- T:(
lu wrote on Mon, 10/10/2005 - 9:09pm
meanwhile i guess we better get rid of that asian chick in battlestar galactica i mean... i dont see anyone speaking no asian languages there! so what's she doin there!?theres an asian or three on every sci fi show. and certainly in every movie.I think also you need to differentiate, you're talking about someone east asian looking. the reality is that asia is filled with a wide variety of colours and shapes, many of which are represented in Lilac and Haven and Beaumont. The Maidenhead is mostly staffed by asians, you conveniently forgot that eh?If you knew anything about the Firefly universe you'd know that Londonium and Sihnon are America and China respectively, they are not really mixed worlds though their cultures have blended. This is not Star Trek where you have a Russian and a BLack woman and a Brit and an Asian all on the one bridge to show unity. These are ex-browncoats and they're not feeling so much of the unity.Aside, practicality: A Chinese character would just talk chinese all the time and the crew would respond in Chinese. It'd change the whole meaning and use of Chinese in the story. Because you'd be subtitling conversations with him and therefore wouldn't be able to swear in Chinese any more. And I really think Fox would go for the whole subtitling thing.. yeah.. cos they're so open minded.Joss was very clever in the way he constructed this universe, he's really thought it out - have you? or are you just being reactionary for fun.myself i'm wondering what happened ot australians GODDAMMIT WHERE ARE WE!!?!?!? Did we just all get left on Earth to die!?? FUCK YOU JOSS!!!!!
waxlion wrote on Mon, 10/10/2005 - 9:14pm
I kind of agree with you, but it comes across as condescending while you still expect more from the guy. You should have just picked one...I think he actually did a pretty good job with being multi-ethnic, the only flaw being that none of these major characters happen to be Asian, specifically Chinese. A third of the lead cast from the series and the movie isn't white. Then when you factor in the movies' featured characters, a Jewish kid married to a robot and another black guy, then it shows that he's being multicultural, just the wrong ones. Also, there's a ridiculously large amount of Japanese despite how the characters (at least try to) speak Mandarin.I assumed that it would be since if they hired actual Chinese actors then it would become far too obvious that the leads have terrible Mandarin. There were actually a couple of Asians wandering around, just none of them really had speaking roles, let alone ones where they would get any Mandarin. Mostly it's just the first lab tech guy, and a couple in the bar...However, ethnicity has never been a particularly strong emphasis in any of his works. Essentially across all his works, the biggest theme iin his stuff is about female empowerment and gender roles. (He hasn't really had a single story without a strong female role in it somewhere generally kicking and killing a lot of guys. The only exception that comes to mind is Toy Story.) Even in that Bai Ling episode of Angel you dock him for, the fact they were alien/mutant/transdimensional beings was not in any way analogous to racism. Instead that was an incredibly thinly veiled parallel to female circumcision...
isabel wrote on Mon, 10/10/2005 - 9:15pm
I think the "Tam" siblings are supposed to be Asian.
m wrote on Mon, 10/10/2005 - 10:26pm
i know i'll get shouted down, but I actually think that in the Serenity universe the Chinese are somewhere that we haven't seen yet. Like, perhaps the ruling parliament is entirely chinese, and the chinese have actually been the lucky ones to stay on earth while most other cultures were evacuated to other planets.Whedon as usual was going to tell a long story and I think the absense of chinese people is on purpose because he plans on telling that story in the future.REmember, we aren't around earth in this movie. We're in the new solar system that they sent excess population to. Perhaps the Chinese are still on Earth which Whedon is saving for a future story.
m wrote on Mon, 10/10/2005 - 10:31pm
Because we KNOW that the Alliance was born out of the Chinese/US govs, and Whedon makes a very big point of having everyone know some Chinese language, I am pretty confident that the Chinese are probably out there and it was going to be a big "reveal" like in season 2 or 3 of the show. Either they are controlling everything or they got royally screwed at some point in the history.
claire wrote on Mon, 10/10/2005 - 10:35pm
now that's a theory i'll buy ;)
m wrote on Mon, 10/10/2005 - 10:38pm
Evidence suggests that Whedon is intelligent enough that he wouldn't put Chinese culture throughout his show and movie without thinking about having Chinese characters in there. If they're not there, it's part of a plan.
cb wrote on Mon, 10/10/2005 - 11:23pm
Personally, I'd be much more offended if a race was inserted just to have it in there as opposed to not be represented at all.
Dayv wrote on Mon, 10/10/2005 - 11:36pm
Usually, I'll question someone who says that they cast who they cast in the main roles, regardless of race -- it's the obvious answer. I could be wrong, but I think Joss Whedon has enough integrity to mean it when he says it, and he does say it. I wouldn't want to sacrifice a fine ensemble cast to include an Asian actor if the Asian actor didn't work as well (or better, of course) within the whole as the non-Asian.As far as guest actors, day players, and especially extras, on the other hand... I got nothin'. Even if the number of Asians responding to casting calls is proportionally low (I have no idea if it is), there should be more than we end up with in the series. Maybe Joss Whedon is somewhat uncomfortable with specifying or emphasising race in a casting call (another conjecture), but you don't publish a casting call for a crowd scene in Harlem without saying something along the lines of "African American."Simon and River Tam have an Asian last name, but they and their father (who appears in the series in flashback) are all identifiably white. I assume (logically, I believe) that they are of mixed but predominantly white heritage.On the theory that the Asian population is populated in the wealthier areas away from the frontier: this is plausible, but without positive evidence to support it (which the series and movie don't give us), it still feels like an excuse. Perhaps Whedon intended this to be the case, but if he did, he'll have to say so himself.I like parentheses.
GregSt wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 12:18am
Wow, Claire, did a cultural studies professor at your community college help you with this? Could it possibly be, as others have suggested, that those of asian persuasion weren't introduced yet? Why do you assume the most inflammatory notion? When was Whedon forced to become a spokesman for the lack of asian actors in american films? He's bucked enough trends that you'd think your anger and energy would be directed elsewhere.Better yet, please don't answer any of my questions. Instead, build a house or feed some children. A girl with as much spunk and energy as you can surely put it to good use. Check out Habitat for Humanity, it'll be good therapy as well./love the movie, love the shows, love the Whedon.//not a fan of the sexually-repressed asians with too much time on their hands
claire wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 12:30am
and again with the ad hominem attacks! just a note for all of you angry wh(edon)ites out there. any further attacks on anyone's person, personality, job, level of education, sexuality, etc. will be ruthlessly deleted and the poster's ip address tagged for moderation. this forum is for debate, not dirty fighting. cf.: grow the fuck up.
mario wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 1:33am
I take it that you're asian. I don't know about you but my family frowns on acting as a carreer. Either be a doctor, engineer, or both. Heh. Oh yeah, being an artist is also frowned upon.Joss whedon has an eye for talented actors, and while i have asian pride, I' don't think the acting pool of American-born Azn's is big enough to satisfy the requirements. Shat, Chinese people would be in the central planets as well. Why would you see them on the fringe?I'm not a Whedon apologist but I don't see what the big deal is. Are you saying that Whedon should hire actors based on how they look on-screen rather than their individual acting merit? And, barring that, that he doesn't hire on merit but that his first pre-requisite is whether his main actors are white enough?This is why your post is so inflammatory. It's indirectly categorizing Joss as anti-asian. You use words like whitecentricity and white boy, which are derogatory, by the way, and--there's just several things wrong with your article.It's in my experience that asians are pretty racist themselves. We are just a bit more quiet about it. I don't think people like to be called indirectly racist. And if you read this paragraph, I'm sorry for the alleging you as such, even indirectly. But then, you did the same to Whedon.Just so you know, Simon Tam, who looks white, is written with a definite asianness to him. Meek, polite, respectful to parents. Very confucian. He's acting asian to me--more asian than most of my americanized friends but then again, what do I know?On a final note:Name me an Azn actor who can act as well as Adam Baldwin as Jayne.Come on now. Reverse racism is just as bad as racism.
lisa wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 2:27am
Hi, I'm an Asian Whedon-fan and I have to agree with mario and tony. My Asian friends and I have never been offended by Whedon's lack of Asian actors because he picks the people that are right for the part. I'd have less respect for him if he was overly sensitive about race and picked skin color over acting ability. I've followed his shows pretty closely and seen that ethnicity isnt't an issue with him. One of the top contenders for Cordelia was black and the original Inara was white. He picked Charisma Carpenter and Morena Baccarin for those parts because they were born to play those characters.I've always been very aware of Asian actors in Hollywood and I can't imagine a single one of them that can replace the actors in Serenity. At least not in America; maybe overseas, especially in Hong Kong, but not here. Do you want Joss Whedon to go call Tony Leung and have him fly over to America to play Mal? Or bring Zhang Ziyi to play River? America just does not have a huge crop of Asian actors. Yes, some are great, but they're few and far between.I get tired of minorities playing victims. If you're being treated wrong then yes, please speak up. But if you're just fishing for people to accuse then you're just wasting time that could be spent on fixing your own problems. I've always been proud of Asians for never complaining, for rising above their issues and moving forward. What you're doing is pointing fingers over mere speculation. It's not the most mature way to go. If Whedon picked an Asian guy for Mr. Universe you'd probably say, "Oh, the one Asian guy was a nerd" or for the villian you'd say, "Great, so the one Asian guy is evil". And I'm sure you'd complain if there was an Asian scientist.
tsuki wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 2:56am
Actually I'm more offended that Memoirs of a Geisha has a mostly Chinese cast. There are so many great Japanese actresses out there and they go and pick Zhang Ziyi for the lead (no Lisa, I would not want her to play River, I'd rather hang myself). She's in every other popular Asian movie these days and it's pathetic that Rob Marshall decided, who needs to go to Japan to fill a Japanese role?I'm no Buffy fan but I was very impressed with Serenity. Joss Whedon picked westerny people for his space western. He didn't screw up casting and I love all the actors. I just figured by however years into the future that most everyone was mixed, especially the Tams (thank you all you posters that mentioned that). And, on a sidenote, the movie's @$#%ing amazing. So he's one of the few Hollywood directors that's actually on my good side these days. Don't even try to get me started about Scorsese casting DiCaprio as the lead in the Infernal Affairs remake. I hope they toss the script (since they're going to do that anyways) and kill him in the first five minutes.
Chelle wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 3:34am
I'm not overly familiar with Chinese culture to speak with anything that has an air of knowing what I'm talking about, but isn't conceiveable that much like China was in hearly history, in this setting of the Serenity/Firefly verse, the Chinese people decided to settle on a planet and isolate themselves? I hadn't read anyone post up that theory.Be that as it may, we're talking about a galaxy, as many have offered up, decendants from the settlers that left China and heck, the other countries in Asia have not perhaps, been shown just yet.Just something to chew on.
Poker Addict wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 4:04am
I understand your frustration but I think your article is a bit offensive and largely inaccurate.I wrote a pretty long response to your article that won't fit or format correctly into a tiny comment box. But here's part of it:Whedon fans are some of the most thoughtful, intelligent, and kind-hearted people I have ever met in my life. As a native Chinese speaker who knows a bit about Asian culture, I've been asked many insightful questions about my cultural heritage.Now what in the gorram 'verse is wrong with that? Sure, some questions are a little silly (people keep asking me what chinese characters would make good tattoos); but I also get asked interesting questions like "how do I make bao from scratch" and amazing question such as "do you see any confucian influences in Firefly that counterbalances Joss's tendency towards existential characterization of the universe?"While I cannot really answer all those questions (I buy my bao from the supermarket like everyone else), I am glad that Firefly makes such dialogue possible. Firefly is a great ice breaker between me and my non-Asian friends. The only drawback is that I can no longer swear in Chinese behind their backs. But if that's the price I have to pay for adoring a fantastic 'verse that treats my culture with equal measures of whimsy and rsepect, then so be it.read more ...
andy wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 4:24am
There are Asians in both Firefly and the film SERENITY. You can see them if you watch the show and the film. They are there. They're just not major characters.
Glenn wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 5:49am
Three words...Get. Over. It.
Speaker wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 5:57am
um... what about summer glau? she's half.
John wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 6:33am
I know this will probably sound crazy but, I go to movies to be entertained. Crazy, huh? When I watch a movie, I don't care what race or color any of the characters are. All I want is a good story, decent effects, maybe some suspense/action and if I'm lucky, a few laughs along the way. I really don't care where the actors are from, all I ask is that they can act. I'm a big believer in "suspension of disbelief" because it makes movies so much more enjoyable (i.e. I really dig the sound of T.I.E. fighters in space). If I want social commentary or racism I'll go see "Crash" or stay home and watch the evening news but for fun and entertainment, I'll stick with my suspension of disbelief.
Karen wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 6:43am
I have a MAJOR problem with this quote, "The slopes are coming,”. You talk about racism; well that was a racist comment and it does not set well with me, and I am not Asian. I am not a "geek" either. I am a female, age 45. So, what racist comment do you want to apply to me, and others, that fall into this group? As far as your article, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. Just remember one thing, when you start judging someone else as being a racist, it might not be wise to make a racist comment. I have noticed that the ones that are the most vocal about racism (but not all); seem to be the racist. I am sorry if this sounds like a rant, but the racism issue is a bit of a sore spot with me at this time, being a Katrina evacuee and from Louisiana. I think you owe an apology to the Asian people or "slopes" as you call them. Thank you for your time.
Sean Bosker wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 7:06am
I agree with Claire. It's weird to see a world in which pidgin Chinese is the language, and no Asians are around. There are Asians everwhere nowadays, why would they be so scarce in the future when they actually run the world?Also, Karen, it's OK for people to use ethnic slurs if they're in the group that's being maligned. That's a rule. Like me, I'm a cracker. And a breeder. I have to call everyone else by the polite words though.
PG wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 7:09am
Hi...I just sort of wandered over to this site. This is kind of making a mountain out of a mole hill, no? Movies released in Asian countries, primarily for Asian consumption, cast characters to which Asians can most easily relate, right? Same with European movies, and the same with American movies.If a Chinese Joss Whedon released the same movie in China, I expect that Whites, Blacks, Latinos, etc. would be poorly represented. That would not really anger me though...the movie would have been made in China, mainly for a Chinese audience.Does something like this really ruin a movie for some people? I don't know, Serenity introduced me to the whole Firefly world, and I just took it for what it was - a nicely-done, entertaining film that I consider really good, but not jaw-dropping-ly spectacular. I didn't really think to base my opinion of the movie on how each race was represented.
margie wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 7:59am
just a couple of comments. First off, I'm asian, and I had noticed that there weren't that many, but it was actually more on the, huh, there weren't that many extras that were asian, that's weird. And less that the main characters weren't.two reasons -1. Joss doesn't care what race his characters are. He doesn't. He wants good acting. He doesn't care how long your credentials are, or pretty much anything else because as good a writer as he is, I think he can work around pretty much anything if he thinks you embody the character.2. How many billions of people are on earth now? How many would have to have been for us to decide to leave and populate 100s of other earths?? And of those billions of billions of people, does everybody really think it odd that *9* non-asian people would somehow find each other and decide to hang out together? That's like a tenth of a tenth of a tenth of a tenth of a single percent of the population or something. It's not indicative of the whole 'verse. I didn't see a problem with it.
Nathalie wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 9:32am
I'm a white chick learning Mandarin, dating a Chinese boy, who loves Firefly and Serenity. I think there could have been more Asian actors. But there weren't any main characters who were Asian in the Firefly show, so it would have been really weird to add them in now. I do understnad your point of view, but I think you're reading too far into this. I also think that Serenity should not be shot down just because of the choice of actors.Thanks for listening!
mathieu wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 10:08am
here is what joss said himself about the TAMs not being asian (see http://www.chud.com/index.php?type=interviews&id=4389:It kind of happened that way. We auditioned Asian actors. We auditioned pretty much every race for every role. Including for Simon after we cast River. She looks kind of Asian, and they could be half brother and sister. It was just how it worked out. And then some people have been offended by that, but ultimately the cast is fairly multi-racial and absolutely the people who are supposed to be playing those parts, so what are you going to do?i will, because of joss's track record, take his word on this rather than assume he must be ethnocentric.
Marsyas wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 10:44am
Overanalysis is nobody's friend, folks.Sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar.
KarKar wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 11:00am
As an Asian American, can I just say who cares? It's a good story and the pidgen English stuff goes back years w/o people getting upset that there weren't enough Hispanics in "BladeRunner" or if there were too many Hare Krishas.It's a good movie and a way for Joss to get around the TV censors. Just enjoy it already. Or go see Jessica Alba in a bikini already.
hako wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 11:51am
I think the comments which claim Whedon casts race-blind are probably right: because good-or-bad I don't think he's that interested in exploring that issue. (And I think when Angel tried to, w/Gunn, it fell pretty flat.) There are other writers who DO want to, though I give you, few of them work in TV.But, think, some of those who don't seem interested nevertheless have a mixed cast. "Gilmore Girls" eg. w/ the "Korean" Laine plays the stereotypes for laughs. Way back when they cast Bill Cosby for "I Spy" the decision was made to absolutely ignore race--and the show worked because of the serendipitous chemistry between the two main characters! And an interesting occurence of race-blind casting gives us ABC's "Grey's Anatomy" (There's a very good article about it and the casting in the New York Times. Shonda Rhimes says she absolutely didn't care beyond gender and talent when casting: what you get is a hospital staffed only in your dreams, but great together.) In real life: I care, in the media arts, the author gets to choose what issues he/she feels like exploring (And we get to reject their offerings if we don't like it.)
Brian wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 12:40pm
I just wanted to mention how upset I am that HBO's new show "Rome" doesn't feature actors of purebred Roman stock speaking textbook Latin. After all, how can they include all these trappings of Rome, without the actual Roman people or language? Travesty.Seriously folks, it's just entertainment. Race didn't have anything to do with casting.
dru wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 1:49pm
"slopes" "whiteboy"I'd reread your whole article in depth, but by using these two words you've basically shown your own stupidty and racism and your article has been given way to much attention as it is.
mltdwn wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 2:39pm
Read all the resources. Per Serenity RPG: They used "Generation Ships" to settle the new systems. Due to the forced intermingling of the races over the centuries it took to get to the new planets the lines have become so blurred you can't tell the ancestry of a person most of the time except by their surname (i.e. River and Simon have the last name of Tam thus they are of Asian descendency).You can see evidence of this in real life when races intermingle as it is. My wife's mother is full Mexican, she married an American and my wife and siblings have zero hispanic traits (other than a little bit darker skin but not much), my uncle is adopted and half black/half mexican and you can't tell he's anything but black by his appearance. Now just imagine that kind of "breeding" over 200 years. Appearance isn't everything you know.
muscratluv321 wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 2:53pm
You know the bit about Joss being racist is interesting. I was just talking about that with a friend the other day, and we had an idea for a totally non-racist Sci-fi show.Yes, we would have a crew that included Afghanistani, Albanian, Algerian, Andorran, Angolan, Anguillan, Antiguan, Argentinian, Armenian, Yemenese, Zambian, and Zimbabwean crew members.It will be easy to write a show for an ensemble cast of 259 or more characters.
rly wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 2:59pm
what do you mean by "american." from your description, it seems you mean someone light skinned. an american can be of any color.
Riley wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 3:48pm
I think everyone is overlooking a perhaps more pressing problem in Hollywood casting. Why are there not moo poor actors getting prominent roles in Hollywood films. The poverty stricken of a minority of greater numbers than the rich, and yet how many times have we seen a 'capitalismly-challenged' member of society on billboards advertising the latest blockbuster. Granted, there have been a few problems, I'm sure we all remember the tragic story of Richard Kilklein who was meant to be a trailblazer for the poverty stricken, but sadly died of starvation during a key action sequence causing the film to be abandoned, but we should not let that put the poor off entering Hollywood. What really annoys me, is when these so-called "poor" people start a career in the entertainment industry and then have to become "rich" in order to suceed, it's a blatent stereotype, and it needs to change. So stop going on about silly racial issues, if an asian man is having trouble getting good roles, he really should of thought of that before becoming asian, shouldn't he !
Blinker wrote on Tue, 10/11/2005 - 4:09pm
Joss could do a much better job of parading his 'racismlessness' than this, you'd reckon! Maybe he has an unfolding secret future history about what really happened coming up?There was in fact a scene cut from the pilot in which the owner of a "fancy, high-class" transport ship announces that "we are not interested in Asian or Catholic passengers, thank you."Aside from the lack of representation, there was no indication of either prejudice in the 'verse as filmed, but I imagine they would have played into a story point somewhere down the line.
Chihiro wrote on Wed, 10/12/2005 - 6:03pm
I am a fan of the Firefly, the television series on which Serenity is based. I was hoping there would be Asian cast members in the film, and not just chinoiserie decor and occasional bursts of Mandarin dialogue.Although I enjoyed the film, my only disappointment is the lack of Asians in the casting. I counted 5 extras, one of whom gets dialogue. The Serenity universe is governed by the Anglo-Sino Alliance, a merging of United States and China - but where are the Chinese onscreen except as a slight influence of culture? (That has baffled me, and is the subject of an essay "Asian Objects in Space" in the book "Finding Serenity : Anti-Heroes, Lost Shepherds and Space Hookers in Joss Whedon's Firefly." ) Adding Asian actors with dialogue would have added more authenticity to the world that Joss Whedon was creating. I was hoping that we'd get to see Sihnon, where the character Inara is from, which is the central to the "Sino" culture as Londinium is to the "Anglo". Unfortunately, we didn't get to see much of Sihnon but for Inara's bedroom - but I'm betting we would have got to see some Asian actors if more of her home was shown.I'm not upset or angry about the lack, but I am surprised that such a careful storyteller would fail to cast more Asian actors with face time. It seems like a simple way to add a realism to the world he was trying to create.
laura wrote on Thu, 10/13/2005 - 7:53am
I actually was surprised at the lack of Asian cast at first, but not after reading about it and looking at Firefly from many other points of view, marketing as one example.As a writer, Joss only writes best characters he already knows. He can't create a character for the sole purpose of being Chinese if it doesn't add something vital the story needs. If he can fit it in with the story he needs to tell, great. His stories are always human. Ethnicity is very rarely an issue in his works. Humanity is his thing.Also, Firefly was cut way short. After all I've read about it and many interviews with him as well, I am certain we would have gone to a very eastern-centric planet called Sihnon -- Inara's home. She is definitely the most eastern of all characters. Joss' comments about Inara's story indicate he sure would like to explore her character deeper in the future. But we've only had Firefly for 14 eps and a 2 hour movie. He had hoped to tell this story over years. Unfortunately, there has yet been time to explore the two most powerful central planets, Londinium and Sihnon. He wouldn't have included them in the story without a reason because he just doesn't do things like that and neither do other good writers.Consider who's watching this English-language production. You have maybe French and Spanish subtitles. I don't know how his works are faring in Asia, but they aren't produced for Asian audiences. They are made for English speaking Western audiences, for the most part. I know they get more translations around the world eventually, but they aren't intially produced for consumption by Asian entertainment mass market.There are lots of Anglo-Americans and Anglo-Brits in his work. They are at the centers of his stories. I'm thinking it's because he's Anglo himself and grew up in the US and England. Those are the voices he knows best, so why shouldn't they be his main characters and main voices? You can't write as well what you don't know as well. And he DOES incorporate other cultures and ethnicities into his work. He just doesn't force what he knows less well.I lived in Japan two years. My Japanese pretty much sucked, but I learned to get around pretty easily. At the end of the day, most Japanese people I met or worked with were glad I made the effort and considered that enough to make up for my not-so-good language skills. Maybe I should have stayed there 2 years and spoken nothing but English. I am Anglo after all and isn't that what would be expected?
laura wrote on Thu, 10/13/2005 - 8:00am
I forgot to add:As far as economics go (and we already saw Joss' words above as to who was cast and why): River, Simon, and Inara are the only characters in the cast associated with the upper echelons of "high society". They are also the only characters we see closely linked to Asian culture. The Tams are very privileged and Inara is of the highest social status, too. They represent the elite and they are very eastern-centric characters. They are played by the actors who auditioned and best fit the roles.
Dana wrote on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 7:45am
I am Asian. I am sick and tired of seeing all this whingeing commentary, about how everytime something is made, it has to REPRESENT EVERY BLOODY RACE ON THE PLANET OTHERWISE ITS RACIST.So South Park, Six Feet Under, Sex and the City, Everybody Hates Chris, My Name is Earl - they're racist cos they don't have major Asian characters? Jeez! Lighten up. It's extremely embarrassing! Americans have this horrible obsession with race, about "representing", on how something can only be good if it passes the zillion ways of interpreting something. Have you ever considered that "Oh, gee, maybe I am missing the point and Joss Whedon is not trying to be Spike Lee and stand up for all the oppressed Asians out there". If you want to find fault, you will always find something wrong.
Shoot wrote on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 9:46pm
Im Black, when I see blacks as the lead roles im happy. Im sorry, but I get tired of looking at white people all the time. In the 70s whites told blacks it wasnt their job to showcase Blacks in their films. So We said cool, wrote, produced and distributed our own films. If Asians are going to passify productions created by Asians put any race on as leads besides Asians, then who can you blame. I feel it is Asians jobs to cast other Asians in lead roles. I dont think its whining when people who created a certain culture are being ignored and excused from it. It is Whedon job to cast Asians. Im not going to place judgement on this guy, but in reality you have to be some what conscieous about your race. This is a question for Asians. Do Asians want to see upcomming Asian stars in lead roles? There nothing wrong with that

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