Anoushka Shankar: Sitar & Beyond

Anoushka Shankar, daughter of sitar maestro Ravi Shankar, was barely 12 years old when she decided to dedicate her life to sitar. Shankar, now 25, grew up in London, India and San Diego. The eclectic and international collection of cities she calls home reflects vibrantly in her open approach to playing sitar, both classically and in contemporary formats. She says living in the United States, where lineage isn’t the ultimate parameter for success, gave her more permission to define her own path. That permission is an extension of her father’s own pioneering approach to bringing north Indian classical music to new audiences in the west. He was among the first classically trained musicians to be embraced by Western audiences, thanks primarily to his connection with George Harrison of The Beatles. Performing milestone concerts at Woodstock and the Monterey Pop Festival, Ravi Shankar presented classical north Indian music in the landscape of a rapidly changing American pop culture. His extensive knowledge, virtuosity and his ability to eloquently educate Western audiences combined with an openness to experiment were critical to bringing new audiences to classical north Indian music. I had a chance to talk with Anoushka while she was touring through the western United States performing classical sitar and also promoting her new album Rise (available on Angel Records here).

I have always been inspired by the music of you and your family, thanks again for speaking with me and Hyphen Magazine. Where did you grow up? What are your earliest musical memories?

I grew up initially in London, and so the music I remember growing up to at the beginning of my life was a mix of different styles of Indian music that I was hearing through my mother, which of course included my father, but she was involved in the arts scene which also included many different artists from the north and south of India that I used to see performing, that I grew up getting to know…there was also a lot of western classical music in our home, and as I grew up to maybe 5 or 6 years old, and I started becoming aware that I was living in London in the eighties…so there was a lot of pop music going on. Those are the major musical things, I would say, that I remember going on: very mainstream pop of the time, Michael Jackson, Madonna, Kylie Minogue, western classical and Indian classical music!

Tell me about your initial study with your father, what was it like in the beginning?

I didn’t start studying with him until I was about 8 years old. My parents only got married when I was 7. So it was only after that I started getting a lot more time with him. Before I would only see him maybe a day or a few days a year as he traveled through London. That is really when everything changed dramatically for me and I also became more directly exposed to his music, of course.

Anoushka studying with her father, Ravi Shankar

Was it a personal decision for you to study this music?

It was kind of a half decision that we all made, with me being as young as I was…my parents were keen for me to give it a shot, and I was open to it as well, but no one really wanted to say that it was something as serious as a possible career, or anything like that, and my parents were quite wise with that, that they approached it as a very fun thing that I could try, and made it very clear that I could always stop if I didn’t have the natural inclination for it, so I would say that the first couple of years were very easy. The lessons themselves may have had a certain level of seriousness or implication about them, because of the traditional and ancient style…but the approach was very easygoing, so I wasn’t necessarily too scared of what it all meant.

What kind of classical western music did you study when you were younger?

Piano.

I know that you moved to San Diego at a young age. What was that experience like, moving to the USA from England?

It happened when I was eleven. It was pretty dramatic. I grew up partly in India before that as well and I continued to retain a connection there. But, shifting at that age was very dramatic, because it is such a formative age. It had less of a connection to culture and more to do with just being young in a different place. The outgoing nature, for the most part, of young children here affected me greatly…I was pretty shy before I moved here. Moving here [to the USA] and being in junior high school really opened me a lot to finding my own voice. It was an amazing experience.

When did it become clear that you were going to pursue studying the music on a professional level?

By the time I was twelve, since I started performing at age 13, so the transition had definitely been made…but I was guarded about it. I definitely expressed that I loved it, and that I thought I wanted it to be a career, but I felt it was too frightening to commit at that age, and say “yes” this is what I want to be doing…so I was giving it more of my time, my attention and my energy, but I still don’t think I embraced it wholeheartedly for a few years after then.

Did you ever feel overwhelmed by the intensity of the approach to learning classical north Indian music? At such a young age, how did the knowledge of your father’s place in north Indian classical music and his own intensive study of sitar affect your decision to go more deeply into your study of the music?

It was partly the lineage you touched upon earlier, and also being at that level even at an early age. You are very well aware of what that means when you tell people that you are taking on that profession…the battle you have to go through for that, whether it is having to prove yourself constantly or that you deserve the opportunities you have had, or any of those things...but outside of that, even on a more intrinsic level, the commitment this music requires, the level of knowledge one requires. This music, it requires so much, because of its immensity, because of its anciency, if that is a word…there is just so much dedication that it requires, and that in itself is frightening, and I still go through tussles with that, because I love it as passionately as I do, but when you are tied to something so immense, so big, with so many rules, so many regulations, sometimes, it can be overwhelming. Definitely as a twelve year old, you are thinking, do I really want to set myself up to this?

Were there major differences from the way that your father was taught and how you were taught?

Absolutely, and in a lot of ways his was a very different world from what i was experiencing being taught this music. I may have had a level of seriousness and application, that my father wouldn’t have demanded less than, to learn music like this...but it is not the same situation of him having to leave everything and go to a village like Maihar and practice everyday 16 - 18 hours everyday for seven years...that old world hardly exists anymore. It is there in some senses, but as much as possible, he tried to retain the essence of that in a much more present day world.

Tell me about your connection to your father. How has he affected your music? How has he inspired you in your approach to music?

He inspires me immensely on a very moment to moment, constant basis. It can be his old records, and all of that, which have so much inspiration in all for musicians all over the world; It is also just binge with him, getting to play with him…just the way he is able to create. Just so instantly, he has an incredible improvasitory skill, and almost instant compositional layout. Even when he is improvising, it sounds like a complete piece....he has so much imbibed ability to arrange and create a story out of what he is weaving. Just watching him play is the biggest inspiration for me.

Are you finding that new audiences that are flocking to classical Indian music?

In terms of classical music, I’m not sure, but for the most part it is very encouraging to see this many people having an interest in learning and being a part of this music. For the most part, for the people who are really building careers, fortunately or unfortunately, that I know of are predominantly children of people who are famous and established. I assume that as we get a few years older, many other people will end up making more of a name for themselves as well. I look forward to seeing what that has in store as well.

How does it feel to be approached by audience lovers and fans, that want to connect you, from a lineage standpoint, to your father?

I find it rather baffling, even though I get it to a certain degree....I mean I don’t know if it is having a history of royalty in our culture, but people really love lineage. It is not even the basic concept, which people often point out, which is that maybe I get a lot of media attention from the beginning far more than someone who is starting without that light on...which is obvious. But just the people themselves, they almost would want to see the child of someone who they love being the continuation of that, of taking over that mantle, and they almost expect that when someone is good, when someone has talent, they give that to their child...kind of like seeing them reign over, preside over, their children’s talent. That is very ingrained in people I meet, at least when we are involved in the musical world...but not just in my case, but every case.

How have you dealt with this pressure and this process?

To some extent, there is a process that anybody in a similar situation goes through of being watched and having to fight it…but if it is not going to help fighting it, then for the most part you just stop fighting...in my case, I just saw very early on, that there was going to be that side of it, which you just touched on, that expectation...and occasionally, suffocating adoration, that people might have for where I am coming from, and their need to see me be a part of that...but that is immediately contrasted by the equal amount of people who are always going to have something to say, about the fact that I play at all, the fact that I have had any chance any success that I might ever have in life, and connect that to my father.

You cant win with that…you cant really judge your own merit, or live your life by opinions you don’t necessarily have control over…and so I basically, to the best of my ability, ignore it…I decided at a young age that if I was going to take this on, that I had to be very very sure, that this was going to be my journey, this is music that I love, that this is music that I love, and I derive pleasure from it on a very basic level.

What is the scene like now, compared to the days and times of when your father first made inroads with the contemporary artists of his day?

It is a very mixed scene now, like you touched on. If you look back at where my father started off, he was very ahead of his time, the cross over was unprecedented. He received a huge amount of flak and criticism because people were affected by what he was doing. It is almost the norm now, rather than the exception, to see musicians doing cross over work, or collaborations across genres, or having this tagline of being something ‘new’ or any of that type of thing. Especially in the last decade I have seen that just skyrocket, not just in our music, but just in art and the promotion of art in general, so that is really being bred, I would say. So, in my situation there might be…definitely moments from the classical Indian music world where they find it a little harder to accept, because it can be a worry when you see someone leaving that [classical world] because maybe they are not going to retain what they started with. But for the most part, it is a very supportive environment for creation and experimentation.

What do you feel is the importance of bringing tradition forward?

It ends up being very intellectual when you try to describe tradition in those terms, and very high brow when you talk about tradition and bringing it forward…but really when it comes down to it, it is just creating and enjoying beautiful melodies. In my case, that automatically comes with something because I am coming from something, so even when I am just sitting down to play, and it might be with a musician from a different style, that my brain format almost has been so trained by Indian classical music, that I will bring up that stuff…it is not just going to be a melody, it is going to be based on a raga. And so I have that to offer…that is a part of who I am. So now that I have been reaching out and growing as a composer outside of just being an instrumentalist, that side of me has.been very interestingly combining with all the other sides of me…because of the fact that I grew up in the states, I have never been brought up in a very traditional way. I have always been very much on the forefront of the things that are going on with kids of my generation…so, I wouldn’t say it is a conscious, or very intellectual process of trying to combine elemnts, it is just a natural way of being whole, and having my art reflect my personality.

What was it like living in and growing up in the USA and being Asian in America?

Well, I don’t know if this is a controversial thing to say or not, but for me what worked was the fact that I moved to an area without a huge amount of people from the same part of the world as me. Being in London, Indians have such a prominent profile, that you get boxed from the second someone sees you as a being part of something, and in many parts of the states, if I had moved anywhere else, the particular part of San Diego that I moved to, Encinitas, had very, very few Indians. So when people looked at me, and for the most part, kids, they looked at me as something completely fresh…they have to ask me who I was, what I represented. What that ended up doing for me, was that it enabled to grow within a personality, not necessarily being associated with any concepts of what that meant, so the individualism that was able to bloom because of that was priceless for me.

What are the major differences in terms of response to your music from audiences in cities in India versus around the world?

There are differences within the classical Indian music world. I definitely say that very often there are less differences that one expects, because of the level knowledge about our music that you will find in cosmopolitan cities around the world. So, that can be comparable to other major cities in India, but there are certain strongholds, where there is a real focus on culture and our music in India, and when you play those festivals, or at certain prestigious festivals and conferences, there is an audience there that is full of aficionados, or other artists and that is very different that you won’t com across almost anywhere…for almost everybody it is a very frightening experience, in India, because people really come to watch what you have to give. On one side it is very beautiful, because you get the people who really appreciate the nuances, who really have studied, who really know everything; on the other side, I find it funny, because they get so into it, they forget to sit back and have a good time, I feel sometimes…it is funny, you really have to prove yourself every time you go back there [to India]. This is for everybody, not just me, or me being who I am.

You mentioned this idea of having to prove yourself when performing in India. Can you talk a little about that? Can you talk about the expectations that you feel are placed on you by your audiences?

Such a difficult question. It has a lot to do with lineage, when we touch upon the fact that a person like me had opportunities thrown at them which other people have to work a lot harder for, the one thing about a person who has to work a lot harder for it, is that it is theirs forever once they get it. No one is going to take away from someone that they achieved something. At this point in my life, anything that I may end up achieving, can always be possible because of something else…simply because I was talented or worked hard. Whatever thing you get, whatever thing that you do, you are not necessarily validated. Even though you may be talented, you kind of always have to grab that again, you have to show that you deserved it, play well, and show people that you have that, and then on a cultural level being one of the ones from America, that’s another point that can make it difficult, because the classical musicians see you as an outsider to an extent. Not speaking the language fluently, or having an American accent. For me, the way I dress, the way I am, and being female, I get a lot prominence for that in India, being very different from the bulk of the classical Indian music world. So, when it comes to stripping it down and playing the music, you kind of really have to show that the shell for me may be very different, and I have refused to bend to that and then have a certain image because it is appropriate, but the substance is still there regardless.

What has it been like to be a woman in the classical Indian music world?

I would honestly say that that was more due to circumstance than any kind of pressure or rule that has ever existed. Throughout centuries, we have had certain women who are very well respected [in north Indian classical music], and are a big part of the story of our musical history, but if you just look at it culturally, for the most part, who could end up being a touring musician as a female? You are going to be a wife and a mother, and even maybe if a son and a daughter would have learned from a master, the son would really be the one who could get out and be an artist. So, as the world changes in every way, it is changing our music as well.

Do you receive a lot of response from women who are inspired by what you do?

Yes, I do, whether it is through the website…or in the media, and hearing the music in India and here, there are a lot of young Indian women that I end up getting contacted by who want to learn sitar, or who want to be a part of the music. We have always had a history of singers, you know, being female…but I am seeing a lot of instrumentalists come up, and not even just because of me, at all, but I do get a lot, and it is very inspiring, very beautiful.

What do you say to an individual that is seeking to learn this music?

What I tell them is that the teacher is essential. You have to have a good teacher. It is not like certain other styles where you can to an extent pick up, or follow, or teach yourself, because a lot of the beauty depends on your nuances to playing. We can have certain lessons written down for posterity, but this not a written down music. You have to be able to imbibe it from a teacher, a Guru.

What is that relationship like, the relationship between student and teacher, shishya and Guru?

It is intense. You are very dependent upon your teacher. It is a very abstract relationship, as it is, because you are connecting through an artform. At least in my life, it is a very unique relationship that I have to my father, and it is the reason that we are as close as we are. It does demand a lot, a lot of memorization, a lot of time and energy. The payoff though is so instantaneous, when you do love a musical style, but it wasn’t really about that…but for me, really, that relationship that it created between us, was so magical.

How has that relationship developed over the years? Has it been challenging to separate the relationships of student/teacher and daughter/father?

I’m a lot more inclined over the years giving interviews and stuff, to sort of talk about the disassociations between the two relationships. But as I have grown older, I have seen it merge together a lot more…as a teenager, perhaps he had to create certain boundaries when he had less time …It more about behaviour that the boundaries had changed. But as we have progressed, especially as I have worked with him in performing and in all of his ventures, whether it is composition or performances he orchestrates or anything like that, we are all sort of collaborators now. He is still my Guru, but when we are playing together, and we do share lessons when we are on tour, we have a genuine musical relationship just as two people playing music, and that’s really merged everything for us. Because we also have fun together, simply inspire one another, and love what we get to do together…I really would say now, it is more of an entire relationship.

I just saw Water, and thought the music was beautiful. It reminded me of your father’s scoring for Satyajit Rai’s films. What has the process of playing for film been like for you? What was it like working on the soundtrack for the film?

I haven’t actually had much experience with that. I have done music for one short film, called “Ancient Marks” and that was the first time for me, thinking of music in a more visual way. And, when Deepa Mehta and Mychael Danna, the composer of the score for this film, called me to do this music, it was actually very sweet, because for Michael, he was, and funny that you mention Satyajit Rai, he was actually shadowing my father’s score for the Apu trilogy, and kind of being inspired by the way my father used thematic simplicity, having certain repetitive melodies that come back in, and themes for certain people, which was very foreign in Inidan cinema back then, and Michael was really using that as a point of inspiration for the music in Water, and so he really wanted me to be the one playing sitar for this film. Yeah, I was very happy to be a part of it.

What was your role in the scoring process, working with Mychael Danna?

On Water, I was more of a session musician. He had composed the main themes, and I may have improvised a little on them, but it was very much about what he wanted. I do find that very interesting, the differences even between two people if you are working on each other’s albums, if someone is coming into my space how it fits into my vision, and if you are going into their album, you have to be able to see what it is that they want. It is an interesting process.

I really found the music to be simple and beautiful, evoking emotionally the film’s characters. I wanted to thank you again for taking time out for this interview. I actually met you and your father in Tampa in 2005…

Oh yeah? That is sweet. Thank you.

I was a treat to hear you play. I have always been inspired by the work of you and your family, thanks again for speaking with me.

Anoushka's newest album rise features original compositions and a wide array of traditional and contemporary interpretations of classical north Indian music.